Consumer Rights Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Google Gemini

2025-11-13T17:15:57Z

Drakeula: typo 2

==Relevancy discussion==

I'm not seeing any listed incidents on the wiki here for Google Gemini. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 01:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I don’t see any incidents related to consumer rights after doing a search either. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
:Gemini is subject to many of the same anti-consumer problems as most LLM/chatbots. (Misleading/false advertising. Consumer manipulation. etc.)
:Here are a couple of examples. These happen to be about privacy, security and autonomy, but there is lots more out there.
:Hack a smart home with a calendar invite! And Google Gemini[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/10/hack-a-smart-home-with-a-calendar-invite-and-google-gemini/]
:Prompt-inject an AI chatbot with … an image![https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/22/prompt-inject-an-ai-chatbot-with-an-image/]
:[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:57, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::It's been a month later. If you'd like to add some relevant incidents that are ''specific to Gemini,'' then you're free to do so. Otherwise, this article will likely be deleted. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:17, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::A month later than what?
:::This came across as threatening. (Work on this now, or else. No reason given for deletion - seems like just to put pressure on an editor who was just trying to help.) May not be the intent, but that is how it feels. I don't like threats, so this gave me no incentive to work on this.
:::Another way something like this could have been said: "I am interested in adding some more incidents to this article. You seem to know about AI. When you have a minute, could you suggest a few more references, or incidents involving Gemini? Thanks."
:::I respond better to a request like that. I suspect many others would also. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:04, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Please clarify what trying to say by emphasis on ''specific to Gemini''. The security issues I cited are with Gemini.
:::For example, ChatGPT has similar issues for inducing delusional disorders, misleading, etc. However it is not (as far as I know) integrated with Gmail, or Google docs, or Google search, or Googles other ubiquitous products. So, while Gemini shares the same underlying security problems as all LLMs, the impact of these problems in Gemini is greater because of the products reach, and more specific to users of Google products. I tried to say that in the post blow (which predates this discussion), was that unclear, or ??? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:10, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:Google says they will not be fixing One of the attack types (ASCII injection) mentioned in article above about prompt injection. (One that is actually fixable.) ''Google won’t fix ‘ASCII smuggling’ hack in Gemini AI'' [[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/10/11/google-wont-fix-ascii-smuggling-hack-in-gemini-ai/]]
:Gemini is pretty much anywhere you find Google apps, so the targets are plentiful, and Google is going to keep 'em nice and vulnerable. Not good for consumers. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Google Gemini

2025-11-13T17:14:07Z

Drakeula: clarify

==Relevancy discussion==

I'm not seeing any listed incidents on the wiki here for Google Gemini. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 01:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I don’t see any incidents related to consumer rights after doing a search either. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
:Gemini is subject to many of the same anti-consumer problems as most LLM/chatbots. (Misleading/false advertising. Consumer manipulation. etc.)
:Here are a couple of examples. These happen to be about privacy, security and autonomy, but there is lots more out there.
:Hack a smart home with a calendar invite! And Google Gemini[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/10/hack-a-smart-home-with-a-calendar-invite-and-google-gemini/]
:Prompt-inject an AI chatbot with … an image![https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/22/prompt-inject-an-ai-chatbot-with-an-image/]
:[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:57, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::It's been a month later. If you'd like to add some relevant incidents that are ''specific to Gemini,'' then you're free to do so. Otherwise, this article will likely be deleted. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:17, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::A month later than what?
:::This came across as threatening. (Work on this now, or else. No reason given for deletion - seems like just to put pressure on an editor who was just trying to help.) May not be the intent, but that is how it feels. I don't like threats, so this gave me no incentive to work on this.
:::Another way something like this could have been. "I am interested in adding some more incidents to this article. You seem to know about AI. When you have a minute, could you suggest a few more references, or incidents involving Gemini? Thanks."
:::I respond better to a request like that. I suspect many others would also. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:04, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Please clarify what trying to say by emphasis on ''specific to Gemini''. The security issues I cited are with Gemini.
:::For example, ChatGPT has similar issues for inducing delusional disorders, misleading, etc. However it is not (as far as I know) integrated with Gmail, or Google docs, or Google search, or Googles other ubiquitous products. So, while Gemini shares the same underlying security problems as all LLMs, the impact of these problems in Gemini is greater because of the products reach, and more specific to users of Google products. I tried to say that in the post blow (which predates this discussion), was that unclear, or ??? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:10, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:Google says they will not be fixing One of the attack types (ASCII injection) mentioned in article above about prompt injection. (One that is actually fixable.) ''Google won’t fix ‘ASCII smuggling’ hack in Gemini AI'' [[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/10/11/google-wont-fix-ascii-smuggling-hack-in-gemini-ai/]]
:Gemini is pretty much anywhere you find Google apps, so the targets are plentiful, and Google is going to keep 'em nice and vulnerable. Not good for consumers. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Google Gemini

2025-11-13T17:13:22Z

Drakeula: typo

==Relevancy discussion==

I'm not seeing any listed incidents on the wiki here for Google Gemini. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 01:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I don’t see any incidents related to consumer rights after doing a search either. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
:Gemini is subject to many of the same anti-consumer problems as most LLM/chatbots. (Misleading/false advertising. Consumer manipulation. etc.)
:Here are a couple of examples. These happen to be about privacy, security and autonomy, but there is lots more out there.
:Hack a smart home with a calendar invite! And Google Gemini[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/10/hack-a-smart-home-with-a-calendar-invite-and-google-gemini/]
:Prompt-inject an AI chatbot with … an image![https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/22/prompt-inject-an-ai-chatbot-with-an-image/]
:[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:57, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::It's been a month later. If you'd like to add some relevant incidents that are ''specific to Gemini,'' then you're free to do so. Otherwise, this article will likely be deleted. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:17, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::A month later than what?
:::This came across as threatening. (Work on this now, or else. No reason given for deletion - seems like just to put pressure on an editor who was just trying to help.) May not be the intent, but that is how it feels. I don't like threats, so this gave me no incentive to work on this.
:::Another way something like this could have been. "I am interested in adding some more incidents to this article. You seem to know about AI. When you have a minute, could you suggest a few more references, or incidents involving Gemini? Thanks."
:::I respond better to a request like that. I suspect many others would also. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:04, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't understand what trying to say by emphasis on ''specific to Gemini''. The security issues I cited are with Gemini.
:::For example, ChatGPT has similar issues for inducing delusional disorders, misleading, etc. However it is not (as far as I know) integrated with Gmail, or Google docs, or Google search, or Googles other ubiquitous products. So, while Gemini shares the same underlying security problems as all LLMs, the impact of these problems in Gemini is greater because of the products reach, and more specific to users of Google products. I tried to say that in the post blow (which predates this discussion), was that unclear, or ??? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:10, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:Google says they will not be fixing One of the attack types (ASCII injection) mentioned in article above about prompt injection. (One that is actually fixable.) ''Google won’t fix ‘ASCII smuggling’ hack in Gemini AI'' [[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/10/11/google-wont-fix-ascii-smuggling-hack-in-gemini-ai/]]
:Gemini is pretty much anywhere you find Google apps, so the targets are plentiful, and Google is going to keep 'em nice and vulnerable. Not good for consumers. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Google Gemini

2025-11-13T17:10:33Z

Drakeula: /* Relevancy discussion */ Reply

==Relevancy discussion==

I'm not seeing any listed incidents on the wiki here for Google Gemini. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 01:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I don’t see any incidents related to consumer rights after doing a search either. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
:Gemini is subject to many of the same anti-consumer problems as most LLM/chatbots. (Misleading/false advertising. Consumer manipulation. etc.)
:Here are a couple of examples. These happen to be about privacy, security and autonomy, but there is lots more out there.
:Hack a smart home with a calendar invite! And Google Gemini[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/10/hack-a-smart-home-with-a-calendar-invite-and-google-gemini/]
:Prompt-inject an AI chatbot with … an image![https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/22/prompt-inject-an-ai-chatbot-with-an-image/]
:[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:57, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::It's been a month later. If you'd like to add some relevant incidents that are ''specific to Gemini,'' then you're free to do so. Otherwise, this article will likely be deleted. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:17, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::A month later than what?
:::This came across as threatening. (Work on this now, or else. No reason given for deletion - seems like just to put pressure on an editor who was just trying to help.) May not be the intent, but that is how it feels. I don't like threats, so this gave me no incentive to work on this.
:::Another way something like this could have been said. "I am interested in adding some more incidents to this article. You seem to know about AI. When you have a minute, could you suggest a few more references, or incidents involving Gemini? Thanks."
:::I respond better to a request like that. I suspect many others would also. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:04, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I don't understand what trying to say by emphasis on ''specific to Gemini''. The security issues I cited are with Gemini.
:::For example, ChatGPT has similar issues for inducing delusional disorders, misleading, etc. However it is not (as far as I know) integrated with Gmail, or Google docs, or Google search, or Googles other ubiquitous products. So, while Gemini shares the same underlying security problems as all LLMs, the impact of these problems in Gemini is greater because of the products reach, and more specific to users of Google products. I tried to say that in the post blow (which predates this discussion), was that unclear, or ??? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:10, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:Google says they will not be fixing One of the attack types (ASCII injection) mentioned in article above about prompt injection. (One that is actually fixable.) ''Google won’t fix ‘ASCII smuggling’ hack in Gemini AI'' [[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/10/11/google-wont-fix-ascii-smuggling-hack-in-gemini-ai/]]
:Gemini is pretty much anywhere you find Google apps, so the targets are plentiful, and Google is going to keep 'em nice and vulnerable. Not good for consumers. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Google Gemini

2025-11-13T17:04:32Z

Drakeula: /* Relevancy discussion */ Reply

==Relevancy discussion==

I'm not seeing any listed incidents on the wiki here for Google Gemini. '''''[[User:JackFromWisconsin|📎 JackFromWisconsin]]''''' ([[User_talk:JackFromWisconsin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/JackFromWisconsin|contribs]]) 01:31, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:JackFromWisconsin|JackFromWisconsin]] I don’t see any incidents related to consumer rights after doing a search either. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
:Gemini is subject to many of the same anti-consumer problems as most LLM/chatbots. (Misleading/false advertising. Consumer manipulation. etc.)
:Here are a couple of examples. These happen to be about privacy, security and autonomy, but there is lots more out there.
:Hack a smart home with a calendar invite! And Google Gemini[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/10/hack-a-smart-home-with-a-calendar-invite-and-google-gemini/]
:Prompt-inject an AI chatbot with … an image![https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/22/prompt-inject-an-ai-chatbot-with-an-image/]
:[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 21:57, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
::It's been a month later. If you'd like to add some relevant incidents that are ''specific to Gemini,'' then you're free to do so. Otherwise, this article will likely be deleted. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 14:17, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::A month later than what?
:::This came across as threatening. (Work on this now, or else. No reason given for deletion - seems like just to put pressure on an editor who was just trying to help.) May not be the intent, but that is how it feels. I don't like threats, so this gave me no incentive to work on this.
:::Another way something like this could have been said. "I am interested in adding some more incidents to this article. You seem to know about AI. When you have a minute, could you suggest a few more references, or incidents involving Gemini? Thanks."
:::I respond better to a request like that. I suspect many others would also. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 17:04, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
:Google says they will not be fixing One of the attack types (ASCII injection) mentioned in article above about prompt injection. (One that is actually fixable.) ''Google won’t fix ‘ASCII smuggling’ hack in Gemini AI'' [[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/10/11/google-wont-fix-ascii-smuggling-hack-in-gemini-ai/]]
:Gemini is pretty much anywhere you find Google apps, so the targets are plentiful, and Google is going to keep 'em nice and vulnerable. Not good for consumers. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 01:01, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

User:Drakeula

2025-11-09T08:16:40Z

Drakeula: /* Hello */

==Hello==
Hi. Most of my wiki experience is from editing on wikipedia (15+ years ago).

My background is in computers, computers & society (especially privacy and user centered design), and technical writing/editing. Plus some public health.

At the moment I am mostly using this page to draft pieces for articles.

==Draft for article on Artificial Intelligence==

Data mining/Big Data

Some techniques are considered "AI" When AI is popular, it is used as a marketing term, may encompas other techniques.

===Machine learning (Generative AI is subset)===
'''Bias.''' Replicates patterns and deficiencies in the training data. May be intentional biases from the trainers, or patterns in the data set that the trainers did not consider or were unaware of. Examples. Image classifiers labeling African-Americans as gorillas. Self-driving car killing person (walking a bicycle was it), because the training set did not include persons with bicycles (what about walkers, canes, unicycles, strollers, ...?). Amazon hiring program was trained on a primarily male workforce, so it discarded resumes that contained the word women (or other markers). [TB - machine learning identified use of an older x-ray machine as a risk factor. Really, people with TB tend to be in poorer communities, where the healthcare facilities have less money for new machines.]

'''Replication or Monopoly.''' Repeats the same problems. One biased hiring manager could be a problem, a widely-used AI effectively creates a blacklist.

Data centers.

Labor practices.

Specifically LLM/Chatbots

==Why it is a problem==
Natural language processing (LLM are in that area)

===LLM===
'''Deceptive marketing.''' Generative AI makes a really impressive demo. Marketed as improving productivity, substitute or augmentation for artists, writers, researchers, or programmers. Typically produces low quality results, makes the job harder, and less rewarding. It is no substitute for knowing what you are doing. [AI e-mails are longer, AI writing is cliche dull, AI "summaries" ][https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/04/29/generative-ai-no-significant-impact-on-earnings-or-recorded-hours-in-any-occupation/<nowiki> No significant impact on earnings or recorded hours in any occupation][[2/3 accept AI output, right or wrong; 1/3 said fixing AI mistakes take as much time as not use AI]</nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/07/25/16-of-employees-pretend-to-use-ai-at-work-to-please-their-boss/<nowiki>][ [Upwork survey. 3/4 AI tools decreased productivity, also burnout]</nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/07/27/upwork-survey-ai-hurts-productivity-and-makes-your-employees-leave/<nowiki>][ [McKinsey, over 80% surveyed companies no material contrib earnings from gen AI </nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/18/ai-brings-huge-enterprise-efficiencies-except-in-making-money/<nowiki>]</nowiki>

*AI coding promoted as reducing costs of software development, in testing programmers feel like they are more productive, but actually take longer.[cite] Code produced is of questionable quality, and may take more maintenance. [At its best, it substitutes using a
*Vibe coding. AI coding assistants are claimed to allow anyone to program ("vide coding" In this context, vibe means incompetent). However, the AI will not teach you best practices, and what you are doing wrong.[Cite vibe code lose data] The results of vibe coding tend to be difficult to modify or maintain.
*Delusions of competence. One may hear news about "AI" analyzing medical tests as well as doctors, and not realize that that is very different from asking a chatbot. People get the delusion that chatbots are competent.
**There are purpose-built expert systems that can diagnose particular conditions on particular scans, some with comparable accuracy to an expert. These systems still require expert knowledge of their limitations to operate, and interpret their results. They are not generally available to the public.
**When asked to do a task, like interpreting medical results, a chatbot may produce a bunch of words that sound confident, that look like what an expert might produce. However it knows nothing, it intends nothing, it means nothing, it can take no responsibility.[Cite reducing disclaimers]

'''Unreliable.''' No way to make them reliable. [No cure for hallucinations][Cite reducing medical disclaimers]

Wordy, cliched, pointless. Summaries wordy, included material not in source, strange selections what to include.[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/04/dont-use-ai-to-summarize-documents-its-worse-than-humans-in-every-way/ Don't use AI summarize]

'''Decreased security.''' Agents especially. If you use a large language model, realize that anything the "agent" can do on your behalf, anybody else can also tell it to do, just by giving it input. (So, if an agent reads your e-mail, anybody sending you an e-mail can tell it what to do. If you have the agent read a web page, or a paper, or evaluate a potential hire...) Companies that use agents may be easier to hack. If you give them your data, it may be more likely to fall into unauthorized hands.

'''Piracy. Monopoly.''' Unlicensed use of content created by others. A few large providers (Google, OpenAI) take content from other creators without license, paying or permission, compete with them, and threaten their existence. [These other creators are mostly small entities, without the resources to fight many hundred billion dollar companies. Every-day consumers lose out because when the journalists who supply Google with information, the product reviewers, the youtubers, are driven out of business, then the LLM summaries will be even further disconnected from reality, having no human content to feed on.]

'''Emotionally manipulative.''' LLM are products developed to be habit forming and use manipulative language. They use same techniques as psychics, con artists, gambling addiction.[[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/06/05/generative-ai-runs-on-gambling-addiction-just-one-more-prompt-bro/ Generative AI runs on gambling addiction], [https://softwarecrisis.dev/letters/llmentalist/ The LLMentalist Effect] ] Dark patterns.[https://www.aicritique.org/us/2025/03/27/generative-ai-and-dark-patterns-in-ux-design/ Generative AI and Dark Patterns in UX Design]

Can be particularly dangerous for people who are extra vulnerable (children, teens, the elderly, the lonely, those under stress, those without strong human connections). Can contribute to development of psychosis in people without known risk factors. May lead those exposed to their output to increased use of dark patterns.

*Using them as companions.
*Therapy substitutes
*Lack grounding in reality and safety. [suicides] AI psychosis[ ]

'''Fraud''' is a major use-case for generative AI. Easy to generate low-quality output that looks like a particular type of communication with a specified message. Fake reviews. Fake scientific articles. [[check def. of fraud]

Fake decisions (government reports, decide applications), pretend has judgement.

Waste of time/resources. Lot more garbage to throw out to find anything of worth. (Dead internet hypothesis.)

Fake products/services.

Identity theft/reputational threat

'''Deepfakes.''' Sell counterfeit song recordings (sometimes authorized, and some unauthorized). Fake audio/video from a known/trusted source. [Fake songs artist reputation, ]

Programs make creating real-seeming documentation of fake events easy. (Nudify filters, ) Pushed

Violate privacy - send information to unauthorized parties.

Infer information from patterns.

==Examples (of abuse)==

===LLM===
Customer service chatbots present misinformation as fact (rug pull). For example, misrepresent prices, misstate policies. Even if the company will say that is a mistake when challenged, the company may profit from people who don't notice, or don't know to challenge it.[Cite burger joint, system capabilities]

Pretend LLM can understand things and has judgement:

*UK government using MS Copilot (using ChatGPT) to decide visa and asylum applications, previous machine learning visa review tool was very racist.https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/11/11/uk-home-office-speeds-up-visa-and-refugee-processing-with-copilot-ai-reject-a-bot/
*Nevada using LLM to decide claim appeals.[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/10/nevada-to-clear-unemployment-claim-backlogs-with-one-weird-trick-pretending-an-ai-has-judgment/]

https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/27/worst-government-use-of-chatgpt-in-a-child-protection-report/

Search summaries [what is google's name]

Search vs. AI summaries. Not clearly differentiated. Different levels of reliability.[ToDo: Check TOS] Publisher vs. platform. [Lawyers. Libel cases.]

Music platform refuses to label AI content. AI content not generally useful.

People suicide, AI psychosis.

===Generative not just LLM:===
Providers of nudify programs typically do not provide adequate user education on the legal and reputational dangers to users. They also do not adequately protect the photographic subjects (enforce that models must be informed and the user must have a valid release from the model).

==Further Reading==

==Not AI==

===EULA of despair===

Might be useful to add link to EULA of despair to the relevant articles. This is what I put in Discord's (as a template?). See what others think. It is dated, but still may be an interesting/educational perspective.

Discord terms of service are lengthy and complex, in Oct 2025, just the base terms are 29 pages, 14th grade (Junior in college) reading level, estimated reading time 42 minutes.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Calculated using readabilitychecker.com based on current discord TOS. |url=readabilitychecker.com |access-date=9 Oct 2025}}</ref> The terms incorporate extensive additional material; a 2021 version of Discord TOS, featured in "EULAs of despair", would take an estimated over 275 hours to read.<ref>{{Cite web |title=EULA of despair |url=https://www.pilotlab.org/eulas-of-despair |access-date=9 Oct 2025 |website=Penn State University Pilot Lab}}</ref>
<references />

User:Drakeula

2025-11-09T08:11:33Z

Drakeula:

==Hello==
Hi. Most of my wiki experience is from editing on wikipedia.

My background is in computers, computers & society (especially privacy and user centered design), and technical writing/editing. Plus some public health.

At the moment I am mostly using this page to draft pieces for articles.

==Draft for article on Artificial Intelligence==

Data mining/Big Data

Some techniques are considered "AI" When AI is popular, it is used as a marketing term, may encompas other techniques.

===Machine learning (Generative AI is subset)===
'''Bias.''' Replicates patterns and deficiencies in the training data. May be intentional biases from the trainers, or patterns in the data set that the trainers did not consider or were unaware of. Examples. Image classifiers labeling African-Americans as gorillas. Self-driving car killing person (walking a bicycle was it), because the training set did not include persons with bicycles (what about walkers, canes, unicycles, strollers, ...?). Amazon hiring program was trained on a primarily male workforce, so it discarded resumes that contained the word women (or other markers). [TB - machine learning identified use of an older x-ray machine as a risk factor. Really, people with TB tend to be in poorer communities, where the healthcare facilities have less money for new machines.]

'''Replication or Monopoly.''' Repeats the same problems. One biased hiring manager could be a problem, a widely-used AI effectively creates a blacklist.

Data centers.

Labor practices.

Specifically LLM/Chatbots

==Why it is a problem==
Natural language processing (LLM are in that area)

===LLM===
'''Deceptive marketing.''' Generative AI makes a really impressive demo. Marketed as improving productivity, substitute or augmentation for artists, writers, researchers, or programmers. Typically produces low quality results, makes the job harder, and less rewarding. It is no substitute for knowing what you are doing. [AI e-mails are longer, AI writing is cliche dull, AI "summaries" ][https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/04/29/generative-ai-no-significant-impact-on-earnings-or-recorded-hours-in-any-occupation/<nowiki> No significant impact on earnings or recorded hours in any occupation][[2/3 accept AI output, right or wrong; 1/3 said fixing AI mistakes take as much time as not use AI]</nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/07/25/16-of-employees-pretend-to-use-ai-at-work-to-please-their-boss/<nowiki>][ [Upwork survey. 3/4 AI tools decreased productivity, also burnout]</nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/07/27/upwork-survey-ai-hurts-productivity-and-makes-your-employees-leave/<nowiki>][ [McKinsey, over 80% surveyed companies no material contrib earnings from gen AI </nowiki>https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/08/18/ai-brings-huge-enterprise-efficiencies-except-in-making-money/<nowiki>]</nowiki>

*AI coding promoted as reducing costs of software development, in testing programmers feel like they are more productive, but actually take longer.[cite] Code produced is of questionable quality, and may take more maintenance. [At its best, it substitutes using a
*Vibe coding. AI coding assistants are claimed to allow anyone to program ("vide coding" In this context, vibe means incompetent). However, the AI will not teach you best practices, and what you are doing wrong.[Cite vibe code lose data] The results of vibe coding tend to be difficult to modify or maintain.
*Delusions of competence. One may hear news about "AI" analyzing medical tests as well as doctors, and not realize that that is very different from asking a chatbot. People get the delusion that chatbots are competent.
**There are purpose-built expert systems that can diagnose particular conditions on particular scans, some with comparable accuracy to an expert. These systems still require expert knowledge of their limitations to operate, and interpret their results. They are not generally available to the public.
**When asked to do a task, like interpreting medical results, a chatbot may produce a bunch of words that sound confident, that look like what an expert might produce. However it knows nothing, it intends nothing, it means nothing, it can take no responsibility.[Cite reducing disclaimers]

'''Unreliable.''' No way to make them reliable. [No cure for hallucinations][Cite reducing medical disclaimers]

Wordy, cliched, pointless. Summaries wordy, included material not in source, strange selections what to include.[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/04/dont-use-ai-to-summarize-documents-its-worse-than-humans-in-every-way/ Don't use AI summarize]

'''Decreased security.''' Agents especially. If you use a large language model, realize that anything the "agent" can do on your behalf, anybody else can also tell it to do, just by giving it input. (So, if an agent reads your e-mail, anybody sending you an e-mail can tell it what to do. If you have the agent read a web page, or a paper, or evaluate a potential hire...) Companies that use agents may be easier to hack. If you give them your data, it may be more likely to fall into unauthorized hands.

'''Piracy. Monopoly.''' Unlicensed use of content created by others. A few large providers (Google, OpenAI) take content from other creators without license, paying or permission, compete with them, and threaten their existence. [These other creators are mostly small entities, without the resources to fight many hundred billion dollar companies. Every-day consumers lose out because when the journalists who supply Google with information, the product reviewers, the youtubers, are driven out of business, then the LLM summaries will be even further disconnected from reality, having no human content to feed on.]

'''Emotionally manipulative.''' LLM are products developed to be habit forming and use manipulative language. They use same techniques as psychics, con artists, gambling addiction.[[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/06/05/generative-ai-runs-on-gambling-addiction-just-one-more-prompt-bro/ Generative AI runs on gambling addiction], [https://softwarecrisis.dev/letters/llmentalist/ The LLMentalist Effect] ] Dark patterns.[https://www.aicritique.org/us/2025/03/27/generative-ai-and-dark-patterns-in-ux-design/ Generative AI and Dark Patterns in UX Design]

Can be particularly dangerous for people who are extra vulnerable (children, teens, the elderly, the lonely, those under stress, those without strong human connections). Can contribute to development of psychosis in people without known risk factors. May lead those exposed to their output to increased use of dark patterns.

*Using them as companions.
*Therapy substitutes
*Lack grounding in reality and safety. [suicides] AI psychosis[ ]

'''Fraud''' is a major use-case for generative AI. Easy to generate low-quality output that looks like a particular type of communication with a specified message. Fake reviews. Fake scientific articles. [[check def. of fraud]

Fake decisions (government reports, decide applications), pretend has judgement.

Waste of time/resources. Lot more garbage to throw out to find anything of worth. (Dead internet hypothesis.)

Fake products/services.

Identity theft/reputational threat

'''Deepfakes.''' Sell counterfeit song recordings (sometimes authorized, and some unauthorized). Fake audio/video from a known/trusted source. [Fake songs artist reputation, ]

Programs make creating real-seeming documentation of fake events easy. (Nudify filters, ) Pushed

Violate privacy - send information to unauthorized parties.

Infer information from patterns.

==Examples (of abuse)==

===LLM===
Customer service chatbots present misinformation as fact (rug pull). For example, misrepresent prices, misstate policies. Even if the company will say that is a mistake when challenged, the company may profit from people who don't notice, or don't know to challenge it.[Cite burger joint, system capabilities]

Pretend LLM can understand things and has judgement:

*UK government using MS Copilot (using ChatGPT) to decide visa and asylum applications, previous machine learning visa review tool was very racist.https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/11/11/uk-home-office-speeds-up-visa-and-refugee-processing-with-copilot-ai-reject-a-bot/
*Nevada using LLM to decide claim appeals.[https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/10/nevada-to-clear-unemployment-claim-backlogs-with-one-weird-trick-pretending-an-ai-has-judgment/]

https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/09/27/worst-government-use-of-chatgpt-in-a-child-protection-report/

Search summaries [what is google's name]

Search vs. AI summaries. Not clearly differentiated. Different levels of reliability.[ToDo: Check TOS] Publisher vs. platform. [Lawyers. Libel cases.]

Music platform refuses to label AI content. AI content not generally useful.

People suicide, AI psychosis.

===Generative not just LLM:===
Providers of nudify programs typically do not provide adequate user education on the legal and reputational dangers to users. They also do not adequately protect the photographic subjects (enforce that models must be informed and the user must have a valid release from the model).

==Further Reading==

==Not AI==

===EULA of despair===

Might be useful to add link to EULA of despair to the relevant articles. This is what I put in Discord's (as a template?). See what others think. It is dated, but still may be an interesting/educational perspective.

Discord terms of service are lengthy and complex, in Oct 2025, just the base terms are 29 pages, 14th grade (Junior in college) reading level, estimated reading time 42 minutes.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Calculated using readabilitychecker.com based on current discord TOS. |url=readabilitychecker.com |access-date=9 Oct 2025}}</ref> The terms incorporate extensive additional material; a 2021 version of Discord TOS, featured in "EULAs of despair", would take an estimated over 275 hours to read.<ref>{{Cite web |title=EULA of despair |url=https://www.pilotlab.org/eulas-of-despair |access-date=9 Oct 2025 |website=Penn State University Pilot Lab}}</ref>
<references />

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T18:55:07Z

Drakeula: /* Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page */ Thank you

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*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
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*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
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*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
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</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::#put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::#Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::#If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::#Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::#Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page==

The article [[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] has a deletion request that says "old aigen article that has not seen any use."

The article
#Has several paragraphs of meaningful content (not a stub).
#Has several references
#Is about an issue that I have heard of and seems noteworthy (Fraud against consumers by one of the largest retailers in the US).

What exactly are the criteria that this article violates that it should be deleted?
*The "seen any use" seems to indicate that there is some criterion on how much people read an article, which this one hasn't met. What is the use benchmark articles have to pass? How can we see how much use an article gets?
*AI generated - how is this determined? I have skimmed the article, it doesn't seem overly painful to read. (It isn't Kippling or Hemmingway, but it isn't bureaucrateese either.)

I am appealing the deletion of this article, since it meets all the inclusion criteria of which I am aware.
If there are policies that it violates, which are not spelled out in the rules, please spell them out.
Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:The "has not seen any use" bit is something I usually add to articles if it hasn't been edited, but there is no guideline on it. AIgen is shown to me partly because loads of info was suddenly added. I do have to admit though that it doesn't make much sense and if nothing happens to it in a year or 2 maybe it'll get deleted then? I'll remove the deletionreq. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:39, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you.
::Not quite sure I understand what you are saying. I thought the goal of the wiki was to have a reference. Unfortunately, that entails a necessary evil of having to write/edit articles. If an article is good enough that it hasn't required editing in months or years, isn't that a good thing? (Not saying the article is great, but once something is sort of okay, editors might focus on more skeletal articles vs. polishing something that has the basics.)
::Is there something undesirable about writing something offline, and then adding it? I have been drafting a few things locally, it didn't occur to me that there would be anything suspicious or bad about crafting in private and then releasing what would look sudden to others. Please help me understand. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:54, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==What does the AI/LLM template mean?==

(Note, this question was prompted by [[ Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] and other articles.)
I feel generally uncomfortable with the LLM tag, because I can't figure out what it means. (I have seen it added to various articles, for no readily apparent reason.) All I can figure so far is that it seems like a particularly insulting way of saying that the tagger doesn't like somebodies writing style. (I strongly object to the overuse of LLMs, saying one writes like one is dehumanizing in the extreme.)

If adding that tag is based on a particular tool, then it would help to have the tool called out so one could experiment and learn how to appease the tool.

There are readability and grammar assistance tools (not recent AI garbage, but reliable old-style programs, like Grammatic), perhaps a link to such tools might be useful to add to the template?

It might help if the adder of the AI/LLM template were required to add specifics about what they find problematic. (Are there inaccuracies, is it use of particular words, is it cliched or verbose, ...) Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:48, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:the SloppyAI tag is basically just if its fully/mostly AI generated, not based on tools and just at the adder's discretion. It's my least favorite template though, and I should probably rework the wording and add an issue part like the one in the Incomplete notice. I'll keep your ideas in mind if/when I do it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:29, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:The AI notice is primarily for quality control - whether it means the references haven't been vetted, or the content hasn't been vetted, or even if the content itself is too "AI-sounding" that it can deter readers. It's a great notice to have because it means the content is still relevant but may require editing to be up to quality standards. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::I'll work on the template in my sandbox now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]]. If the visual editor could present a short list of a few typical reasons why the tag might be added, with a checkbox for each. That might give an easy way for the tagger to provide more helpful information to other editors. (I am thinking things like "wordy" (or "omit needless words"), "repetitive" (for says same thing over and over), "jargon" (or "overly technical"), "fact check". Those are just what comes to my mind, pick whatever sins of AI/poor writing you see commonly.)
:::If the visual editor can't do that (and for those who don't use the editor), the documentation could provide a list of cues for taggers to use.
:::Rather than saying AI, could it be more - help improve clarity/readability?
:::I just want the reader/writer to clearly communicate what they can do to improve the article. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:26, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T18:27:07Z

Drakeula: /* What does the AI/LLM template mean? */

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::#put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::#Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::#If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::#Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::#Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page==

The article [[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] has a deletion request that says "old aigen article that has not seen any use."

The article
#Has several paragraphs of meaningful content (not a stub).
#Has several references
#Is about an issue that I have heard of and seems noteworthy (Fraud against consumers by one of the largest retailers in the US).

What exactly are the criteria that this article violates that it should be deleted?
*The "seen any use" seems to indicate that there is some criterion on how much people read an article, which this one hasn't met. What is the use benchmark articles have to pass? How can we see how much use an article gets?
*AI generated - how is this determined? I have skimmed the article, it doesn't seem overly painful to read. (It isn't Kippling or Hemmingway, but it isn't bureaucrateese either.)

I am appealing the deletion of this article, since it meets all the inclusion criteria of which I am aware.
If there are policies that it violates, which are not spelled out in the rules, please spell them out.
Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:The "has not seen any use" bit is something I usually add to articles if it hasn't been edited, but there is no guideline on it. AIgen is shown to me partly because loads of info was suddenly added. I do have to admit though that it doesn't make much sense and if nothing happens to it in a year or 2 maybe it'll get deleted then? I'll remove the deletionreq. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:39, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==What does the AI/LLM template mean?==

(Note, this question was prompted by [[ Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] and other articles.)
I feel generally uncomfortable with the LLM tag, because I can't figure out what it means. (I have seen it added to various articles, for no readily apparent reason.) All I can figure so far is that it seems like a particularly insulting way of saying that the tagger doesn't like somebodies writing style. (I strongly object to the overuse of LLMs, saying one writes like one is dehumanizing in the extreme.)

If adding that tag is based on a particular tool, then it would help to have the tool called out so one could experiment and learn how to appease the tool.

There are readability and grammar assistance tools (not recent AI garbage, but reliable old-style programs, like Grammatic), perhaps a link to such tools might be useful to add to the template?

It might help if the adder of the AI/LLM template were required to add specifics about what they find problematic. (Are there inaccuracies, is it use of particular words, is it cliched or verbose, ...) Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:48, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:the SloppyAI tag is basically just if its fully/mostly AI generated, not based on tools and just at the adder's discretion. It's my least favorite template though, and I should probably rework the wording and add an issue part like the one in the Incomplete notice. I'll keep your ideas in mind if/when I do it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:29, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:The AI notice is primarily for quality control - whether it means the references haven't been vetted, or the content hasn't been vetted, or even if the content itself is too "AI-sounding" that it can deter readers. It's a great notice to have because it means the content is still relevant but may require editing to be up to quality standards. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::I'll work on the template in my sandbox now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]]. If the visual editor could present a short list of a few typical reasons why the tag might be added, with a checkbox for each. That might give an easy way for the tagger to provide more helpful information to other editors. (I am thinking things like "wordy" (or "omit needless words"), "repetitive" (for says same thing over and over), "jargon" (or "overly technical"), "fact check". Those are just what comes to my mind, pick whatever sins of AI/poor writing you see commonly.)
:::If the visual editor can't do that (and for those who don't use the editor), the documentation could provide a list of cues for taggers to use.
:::Rather than saying AI, could it be more - help improve clarity/readability?
:::I just want the reader/writer to clearly communicate what they can do to improve the article. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:26, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T18:26:27Z

Drakeula: /* What does the AI/LLM template mean? */

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
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{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::#put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::#Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::#If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::#Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::#Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page==

The article [[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] has a deletion request that says "old aigen article that has not seen any use."

The article
#Has several paragraphs of meaningful content (not a stub).
#Has several references
#Is about an issue that I have heard of and seems noteworthy (Fraud against consumers by one of the largest retailers in the US).

What exactly are the criteria that this article violates that it should be deleted?
*The "seen any use" seems to indicate that there is some criterion on how much people read an article, which this one hasn't met. What is the use benchmark articles have to pass? How can we see how much use an article gets?
*AI generated - how is this determined? I have skimmed the article, it doesn't seem overly painful to read. (It isn't Kippling or Hemmingway, but it isn't bureaucrateese either.)

I am appealing the deletion of this article, since it meets all the inclusion criteria of which I am aware.
If there are policies that it violates, which are not spelled out in the rules, please spell them out.
Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:The "has not seen any use" bit is something I usually add to articles if it hasn't been edited, but there is no guideline on it. AIgen is shown to me partly because loads of info was suddenly added. I do have to admit though that it doesn't make much sense and if nothing happens to it in a year or 2 maybe it'll get deleted then? I'll remove the deletionreq. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:39, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==What does the AI/LLM template mean?==

(Note, this question was prompted by [[ Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] and other articles.)
I feel generally uncomfortable with the LLM tag, because I can't figure out what it means. (I have seen it added to various articles, for no readily apparent reason.) All I can figure so far is that it seems like a particularly insulting way of saying that the tagger doesn't like somebodies writing style. (I strongly object to the overuse of LLMs, saying one writes like one is dehumanizing in the extreme.)

If adding that tag is based on a particular tool, then it would help to have the tool called out so one could experiment and learn how to appease the tool.

There are readability and grammar assistance tools (not recent AI garbage, but reliable old-style programs, like Grammatic), perhaps a link to such tools might be useful to add to the template?

It might help if the adder of the AI/LLM template were required to add specifics about what they find problematic. (Are there inaccuracies, is it use of particular words, is it cliched or verbose, ...) Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:48, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

:the SloppyAI tag is basically just if its fully/mostly AI generated, not based on tools and just at the adder's discretion. It's my least favorite template though, and I should probably rework the wording and add an issue part like the one in the Incomplete notice. I'll keep your ideas in mind if/when I do it. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:29, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:The AI notice is primarily for quality control - whether it means the references haven't been vetted, or the content hasn't been vetted, or even if the content itself is too "AI-sounding" that it can deter readers. It's a great notice to have because it means the content is still relevant but may require editing to be up to quality standards. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::I'll work on the template in my sandbox now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:28, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you [[@User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]]. If the visual editor could present a short list of a few typical reasons why the tag might be added, with a checkbox for each. That might give an easy way for the tagger to provide more helpful information to other editors. (I am thinking things like "wordy" (or "omit needless words"), "repetitive" (for says same thing over and over), "jargon" (or "overly technical"), "fact check". Those are just what comes to my mind, pick whatever sins of AI/poor writing you see commonly.)
:::If the visual editor can't do that (and for those who don't use the editor), the documentation could provide a list of cues for taggers to use.
:::Rather than saying AI, could it be more - help improve clarity/readability?
:::I just want the reader/writer to clearly communicate what they can do to improve the article. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 18:26, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Eight Sleep

2025-11-06T08:58:39Z

Drakeula: /* Sources */ new section

== Notice ==

This has no sources to back up any of the claims made. @[[User:SpiralingGales|SpiralingGales]] please add at least some links to relevant articles and pages of the TOS. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 08:41, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

== Sources ==

Hotbed (from article to be deleted):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/smart-bed-owners-experience-aws-outage-nightmare-as-theyre-left-sweating-and-stuck-in-upright-position/ar-AA1OZbe5?PC=EMMX01

https://pcmag.com/smart-home/160850/this-weeks-aws-crash-made-smart-beds-overheat-get-stuck-in-wrong-position [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:58, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Eight Sleep

2025-11-06T08:57:29Z

Drakeula: /* AWS Outage Bricking Beds */ Spell out AWS

{{InfoboxCompany
| Name = {{PAGENAME}}
| Type = Private
| Founded = 2014
| Industry = Smart Mattresses / Sleep Technology
| Headquarters = New York, NY
| Official Website = https://eightsleep.com/
| Logo = Eight Sleep logo.png
| Key People = Matteo Franceschetti (CEO, Co-founder), Alexandra Zatarain (CMO, Co-founder)
| Valuation = ~$1 billion (est. 2025)
| Total Funding = $260+ million
}}

'''Eight Sleep''' is an American company that develops smart mattresses and mattress covers with temperature control, sleep tracking, and health monitoring capabilities. Founded in 2014 and headquartered in New York City, the company has raised over $260 million in venture funding and has generated over $500 million in cumulative Pod revenue to date.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/ai-powered-startup-eight-sleep-fitness-funding/ |title=Eight Sleep Lands $100M In Fresh Funding To Help You Get A Better Night's Rest |website=Crunchbase News |date=2025-08-19 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

==Consumer impact summary==

*'''Retroactive subscription requirement:''' Around 2023, Eight Sleep implemented a mandatory subscription model, placing previously free features behind a paywall ranging from $199 to $299 annually.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://powermoves.blog/health/eight-sleep-review/ |title=Eight Sleep Pod 5 Cover Review: Insights After Four Years as a User |website=Power Moves |date=2025-09-08 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*'''Security vulnerabilities:''' Security researchers discovered SSH backdoors and exposed AWS keys in February 2025 that could allow unauthorized access to customers' home networks.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://trufflesecurity.com/blog/removing-jeff-bezos-from-my-bed |title=Removing Jeff Bezos From My Bed |website=Truffle Security Co. |date=2025-02-21 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*'''False discount allegations:''' A class action lawsuit filed in 2025 alleges the company engaged in deceptive pricing practices.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/eight-sleep-sued-for-alleged-false-discounts-on-luxury-bedding-products/ |title=Eight Sleep sued for alleged false discounts on luxury bedding products |website=Top Class Actions |date=2025-05-09 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*'''Consumer complaints:''' The Better Business Bureau profile shows numerous complaints filed against the company, with issues including product failures after warranty expiration and poor customer service.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/mattress/eight-0121-166228 |title=Eight - BBB Business Profile |website=Better Business Bureau |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

==Incidents==

===Mandatory subscription model implementation===

Around 2023, Eight Sleep began requiring paid subscriptions to access features that were previously included with the purchase of their products.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.eightsleep.com/blog/understanding-the-eight-sleep-membership/ |title=Understanding the Eight Sleep Membership |website=Eight Sleep |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref> The company introduced three subscription tiers:

====Subscription requirements====
*'''Autopilot Standard''' ($199/year or $17/month): Required for first year of ownership for all new customers<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.eightsleep.com/app-terms-conditions/ |title=Eight Sleep App Terms and Conditions |website=Eight Sleep |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*'''Autopilot Enhanced''' ($299/year or $25/month): Includes extended 5-year warranty
*'''Autopilot Elite''' ($399/year or $33/month): Premium features and support

====Features moved behind paywall====
According to user reports and product documentation, the following features that were previously free now require an active subscription:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://yawnder.com/can-you-use-eight-sleep-without-subscription/ |title=Eight Sleep: Exclusive Insights on Using It Without Subscription |website=Yawnder |date=2024-07-16 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Autopilot (automatic temperature adjustments based on sleep patterns)
*Scheduled temperature changes
*Sleep stage tracking and metrics
*Heart rate and respiratory rate monitoring
*Health reports and sleep insights
*Vibration and thermal alarms
*Software updates and new features

Without a subscription, users can only manually adjust temperature through the mobile app.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://powermoves.blog/health/eight-sleep-faq/ |title=Eight Sleep FAQs: 2025 Pod 5 Buyer's Guide |website=Power Moves |date=2025-07-21 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

====Consumer response====
The subscription requirement has generated significant criticism from consumers. Common complaints documented on Reddit and review sites include:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://mattressdigest.com/can-you-use-eight-sleep-without-subscription/ |title=Can You Use Eight Sleep Without Subscription? |website=Mattress Digest |date=2024-10-14 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Frustration that features advertised as included are now subscription-only
*The high cost of subscriptions on top of the initial purchase price ($2,000-$6,000)
*Inability to use basic features without maintaining internet connectivity
*Concerns about the product becoming unusable if the company discontinues service

====Industry comparison====
Eight Sleep's subscription model contrasts with competitors in the smart mattress market. Competitor Sleepme (makers of Chilipad and Dock Pro) explicitly markets their products as subscription-free alternatives.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://sleep.me/chilipad-vs-eight-sleep |title=Chilipad vs. Eight Sleep Pod - Bed Cooling Systems |website=Sleep.me |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

===Security vulnerabilities discovery===

In February 2025, security researcher Dylan Ayrey of Truffle Security published findings revealing multiple security vulnerabilities in Eight Sleep smart beds.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://trufflesecurity.com/blog/removing-jeff-bezos-from-my-bed |title=Removing Jeff Bezos From My Bed |website=Truffle Security Co. |date=2025-02-21 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

====Key findings====
*'''SSH Backdoor:''' The firmware contains code allowing remote SSH access to customer devices through remote-connectivity-api.8slp.net, with public keys associated with eng@eightsleep.com, suggesting all engineering staff potentially have root access to customer devices.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.hackster.io/news/dylan-ayrey-has-a-sleepless-night-thanks-to-an-ssh-backdoor-in-eight-sleep-smart-mattress-covers-d01055e4e1c6 |title=Dylan Ayrey Has a Sleepless Night Thanks to an SSH Backdoor in Eight Sleep Smart Mattress Covers |website=Hackster.io |date=2025-02-24 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

*'''AWS Key Exposure:''' A valid Amazon Web Services key was discovered hardcoded in the firmware, accessible to anyone who downloaded it. While the key was revoked after disclosure, researchers noted it could have been used to access customer data or rack up significant AWS charges for the company.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://cybernews.com/security/smart-bed-eight-sleep-contains-backdoor/ |title=$2,000 Eight Sleep bed contains hidden backdoors |website=Cybernews |date=2025-02-27 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

*'''Network Security Risks:''' The vulnerabilities could allow attackers to use the bed as a gateway device for lateral network attacks, potentially accessing other devices on the customer's home network.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://cybersecuritynews.com/vulnerability-in-internet-connected-smart-beds/ |title=Vulnerability in Internet-Connected Smart Beds Let Attackers Access Other Devices in Network |website=Cybersecurity News |date=2025-02-24 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

====Technical implications====
According to the security researchers, the SSH backdoor enables:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/security-researcher-finds-vulnerability-in-internet-connected-bed-could-allow-access-to-all-devices-on-network |title=Security researcher finds vulnerability in internet-connected bed, could allow access to all devices on network |website=Tom's Hardware |date=2025-02-23 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Remote code execution on customer devices
*Monitoring of sleep patterns and bed occupancy
*Access to biometric data collected by the device
*Potential pivot point to access other networked devices

The researchers compared the access level to Uber's controversial "God Mode," noting that any Eight Sleep engineer could theoretically monitor when customers are sleeping, detect multiple occupants, or determine when beds are unoccupied.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.techradar.com/pro/company-that-reportedly-supplied-doge-and-elon-musk-with-sleeping-solutions-found-to-have-huge-vulnerability-in-its-beds |title=Backdoor access and exposed key: Eight Sleep beds seemingly suffer some serious security liabilities |website=TechRadar |date=2025-03-01 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

====Company response====
Eight Sleep provided a statement to Hackster.io on February 24, 2025, claiming that the researcher's findings "do not reflect a legitimate security vulnerability but rather speculation without real-world implications." The company stated that "Eight Sleep devices are impenetrable to unauthorized individuals" but did not deny the presence of the SSH backdoor that would allow access by Eight Sleep's own engineers. The company added: "That said, we appreciate the work that security researchers do to ensure that companies continue to follow the best-in-class protocols for consumer safety."<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.hackster.io/news/dylan-ayrey-has-a-sleepless-night-thanks-to-an-ssh-backdoor-in-eight-sleep-smart-mattress-covers-d01055e4e1c6 |title=Dylan Ayrey Has a Sleepless Night Thanks to an SSH Backdoor in Eight Sleep Smart Mattress Covers |website=Hackster.io |date=2025-02-24 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

The company did not indicate whether it planned to remove the SSH backdoor in future firmware updates, unlike competitor Sleep Number, which had removed similar backdoors after they were discovered in 2024.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/how-to-hack-a-smart-mattress/53232/ |title=How to hack an Eight Sleep smart mattress "Pod" |website=Kaspersky |date=2025-03-26 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

===False discount pricing lawsuit===

In 2025, consumers Tushar Chopra and Brian Delshad filed a class action lawsuit against Eight Sleep Inc. in California federal court, alleging the company engaged in deceptive pricing practices.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/eight-sleep-sued-for-alleged-false-discounts-on-luxury-bedding-products/ |title=Eight Sleep sued for alleged false discounts on luxury bedding products |website=Top Class Actions |date=2025-05-09 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

====Allegations====
The lawsuit alleges that:
*Eight Sleep displays false reference prices on its website to create the illusion of discounts
*Products are listed with "continuous discounts" ranging from $50 to $200
*The reference prices used for comparison were never actual selling prices
*The scheme has affected hundreds of thousands of customers nationwide

The plaintiffs seek to represent a California class of consumers who purchased Eight Sleep products at represented discounts from inflated reference prices. They are suing for violations of California's unfair competition law, false advertising law, and consumer legal remedies act, as well as fraud.

===Amazon Web Services Outage Bricking Beds===
In October 2025, an [[Amazon]] Web Services (AWS) outage caused Eight Sleep beds to become bricked, preventing customers from adjusting settings. Some were stuck on a high heat setting or awkward recliner settings, making the beds potentially unusable until services were restored. Power cycling the bed might have made it usable again.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Gault |first=Matthew |date=2025-10-22 |title=The AWS Outage Bricked People’s $2,700 Smartbeds |url=https://www.404media.co/the-aws-outage-bricked-peoples-2-700-smartbeds/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.is/MO7Xw |archive-date=2025-10-22 |access-date=2025-10-23 |website=404 Media}}</ref>

==Company profile==

===Funding and valuation===
Eight Sleep has raised over $260 million across multiple funding rounds:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://tracxn.com/d/companies/eight-sleep/__ES61NxOdtnaTPJG1gRZ86OKdaWqyKWGA6Vfecz3FolE/funding-and-investors |title=Eight Sleep - 2025 Funding Rounds & List of Investors |website=Tracxn |date=2025-08-19 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Series D (August 2025): $100 million led by HSG
*Series C (August 2021): $86 million led by Valor Equity Partners
*Total funding: $260+ million
*Valuation: Approximately $1 billion (doubled since 2021)

Notable investors include Founders Fund, Y Combinator, SoftBank, Khosla Ventures, and athletes including Formula 1 drivers Charles Leclerc and McLaren CEO Zak Brown.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://techcrunch.com/2025/08/19/eight-sleep-grabs-100m-to-bring-ai-into-your-bed/ |title=Eight Sleep raises $100M to expand its AI-powered sleep tech |website=TechCrunch |date=2025-08-19 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

===Product line and pricing===
As of September 2025, Eight Sleep's main product is the Pod 5, launched in May 2025:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.tomsguide.com/mattresses/eight-sleep-launches-pod-5-ultra |title=Eight Sleep launches new Pod 5 Ultra — a world-first fully immersive sleep system |website=Tom's Guide |date=2025-05-14 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Pod 5 Core (cover and hub): $2,849-$3,199
*Pod 5 Plus (adds blanket): $4,099-$4,599
*Pod 5 Ultra (adds adjustable base): $5,849-$6,099

All models require a first-year subscription starting at $199 annually.

==Consumer complaints and reviews==

===Better Business Bureau===
Eight Sleep has received numerous complaints through the Better Business Bureau as of September 2025. The company is not BBB accredited. Common complaint themes include:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/mattress/eight-0121-166228/complaints |title=Eight - BBB Complaints |website=Better Business Bureau |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Products failing shortly after warranty expiration
*Difficulty obtaining warranty service
*Poor customer service response times
*Issues with subscription billing and cancellation

===Product reliability concerns===
Multiple consumer reports document recurring issues with product durability:<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/mattress/eight-0121-166228/customer-reviews |title=Eight - BBB Reviews |website=Better Business Bureau |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>
*Water leaks in the Pod cover system
*Hub failures after 2-3 years of use
*WiFi connectivity problems
*Temperature control malfunctions

The company's standard warranty is 2 years, which some consumers have criticized as insufficient for a product costing $2,000-$6,000. Extended warranties are available only through higher-tier subscriptions.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://powermoves.blog/health/eight-sleep-faq/ |title=Eight Sleep FAQs: 2025 Pod 5 Buyer's Guide |website=Power Moves |date=2025-07-21 |access-date=2025-09-12}}</ref>

==See also==

*[[Retroactively amended purchase]]
*[[Subscription creep]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[https://www.eightsleep.com Official website]
*[https://trufflesecurity.com/blog/removing-jeff-bezos-from-my-bed Truffle Security's security analysis]
*[https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/mattress/eight-0121-166228 Better Business Bureau profile]
[[Category:Eight Sleep]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T08:48:02Z

Drakeula: /* What does the AI/LLM template mean? */ new section

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::# put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::# Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::# If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::# Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::# Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

== Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page ==

The article [[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] has a deletion request that says "old aigen article that has not seen any use."

The article
# Has several paragraphs of meaningful content (not a stub).
# Has several references
# Is about an issue that I have heard of and seems noteworthy (Fraud against consumers by one of the largest retailers in the US).

What exactly are the criteria that this article violates that it should be deleted?
* The "seen any use" seems to indicate that there is some criterion on how much people read an article, which this one hasn't met. What is the use benchmark articles have to pass? How can we see how much use an article gets?
* AI generated - how is this determined? I have skimmed the article, it doesn't seem overly painful to read. (It isn't Kippling or Hemmingway, but it isn't bureaucrateese either.)

I am appealing the deletion of this article, since it meets all the inclusion criteria of which I am aware.
If there are policies that it violates, which are not spelled out in the rules, please spell them out.
Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

== What does the AI/LLM template mean? ==

(Note, this question was prompted by [[ Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] and other articles.)
I feel generally uncomfortable with the LLM tag, because I can't figure out what it means. (I have seen it added to various articles, for no readily apparent reason.) All I can figure so far is that it seems like a particularly insulting way of saying that the tagger doesn't like somebodies writing style. (I strongly object to the overuse of LLMs, saying one writes like one is dehumanizing in the extreme.)

If adding that tag is based on a particular tool, then it would help to have the tool called out so one could experiment and learn how to appease the tool.

There are readability and grammar assistance tools (not recent AI garbage, but reliable old-style programs, like Grammatic), perhaps a link to such tools might be useful to add to the template?

It might help if the adder of the AI/LLM template were required to add specifics about what they find problematic. (Are there inaccuracies, is it use of particular words, is it cliched or verbose, ...) Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:48, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T08:40:10Z

Drakeula: /* Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page */ new section

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::# put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::# Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::# If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::# Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::# Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

== Appeal deletion - Amazon fraudulent product page ==

The article [[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]] has a deletion request that says "old aigen article that has not seen any use."

The article
# Has several paragraphs of meaningful content (not a stub).
# Has several references
# Is about an issue that I have heard of and seems noteworthy (Fraud against consumers by one of the largest retailers in the US).

What exactly are the criteria that this article violates that it should be deleted?
* The "seen any use" seems to indicate that there is some criterion on how much people read an article, which this one hasn't met. What is the use benchmark articles have to pass? How can we see how much use an article gets?
* AI generated - how is this determined? I have skimmed the article, it doesn't seem overly painful to read. (It isn't Kippling or Hemmingway, but it isn't bureaucrateese either.)

I am appealing the deletion of this article, since it meets all the inclusion criteria of which I am aware.
If there are policies that it violates, which are not spelled out in the rules, please spell them out.
Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:40, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Amazon

2025-11-06T08:13:19Z

Drakeula: /* Controversies */ moved article

{{CompanyCargo
| Founded = 1994
| Industry = Technology
| Logo = Amazon.png
| ParentCompany =
| Type = Public
| Website = https://amazon.com/
| Description =
}}
[[wikipedia:Amazon_(company)|'''Amazon.com, Inc.''']] is a global leader in e-commerce, cloud computing, and digital streaming founded in 1994 by Jeff Bezos. Originally launched as an online bookstore, Amazon quickly expanded into a marketplace offering a wide range of products, including - but not limited to - electronics, clothing, household goods, and groceries. Today, it is one of the largest companies in the world, with a dominant presence in retail, technology, and logistics.

In addition to its e-commerce platform, Amazon is a major player in cloud computing through Amazon Web Services (AWS), which provides cloud infrastructure and services to businesses globally. The company also offers a variety of digital services, such as Amazon Prime - which provides streaming video and music - and Alexa; its voice-activated virtual assistant. Amazon has also developed consumer products like the Kindle e-reader, Fire tablets, and Echo smart speakers.

Amazon has faced significant scrutiny and criticism, particularly concerning its treatment of workers, marketplace practices, data privacy issues, and its impact on small businesses. It has been involved in various regulatory and legal challenges related to anti-competitive behavior, safety, and consumer protection, with calls for increased oversight on its business operations.

==Consumer impact summary==
{{Placeholder box|Overview of concerns that arise from the company's conduct regarding (if applicable):
* User Freedom
* User Privacy
* Business Model
* Market Control}}

====Business Model====
Amazon gets a majority of its revenue from seller fees and Amazon Prime memberships. In addition, Amazon has a "subscribe and save" option for some products. With this, the page to manage these subscriptions is obfuscated for the user, intentional or not.

<gallery>
File:Amazon Subscribe and Save Example.jpg|No "subscribe and save" option available
File:Amazon Subscribe and Save Example (1).jpg|The option appears in the "buy again" section.
</gallery>

==Controversies==
Amazon has been involved in numerous controversies, from dangerous products to anti-competitive practices. Below is a comprehensive listing of every relevant controversy documented here on this wiki: 
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+
!Controversy
!Year
!Background info
!Aftermath
!Related article
!Related video(s)
|-
|Amazon removing kindle books from old devices.
|2025
|As of May 26, 2025 Kindle for Android app versions released prior to March 2022 (v8.51 or earlier) no longer support Kindle content downloads.
|Old android devices (such as Galaxy Tab 4) that are not compatible with Android OS v.9.0+ are no longer able to download Kindle ebooks. Furthermore, Amazon 'forcibly' removed any ebooks downloaded to the kindle app on those devices the next time they connected to the internet, without warning that this would occur.
|https://www.androidauthority.com/kindle-app-drm-loophole-3554844/
|
|-
|Amazon removing ability to download Kindle books
|2025
|Starting on February 26, 2025, Amazon removed a feature from its website allowing users to download purchased books to a computer and then copy them manually to a Kindle over USB.
|Starting February 26, 2025, the ‘Download & Transfer via USB’ option will no longer be available.
|[[Amazon Kindle removes download feature of purchased books]]
|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMoCzeGnIss '''Amazon are changing the way you own your Kindle books - you have 10 days to react''']
<ref group="Video References">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcoUdWCB9M</ref>
|-
|Amazon sells lethal litterboxes
|2024
|Amazon sold knockoffs of Whisker brand "Litter-Robot" litterboxes that were designed in a unsafe way that led to the deaths of multiple cats, and posed a danger to young children.
|The responsible knockoff product was delisted, yet many other variants of the same product exist on the site.
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=p6Y19nSPvC4</ref>
|-
|Amazon adds ads to premium subscription
|2023 – Present
|Amazon added advertisements to previously ad free subscriptions for Prime Video and Echo Show frames.
|Continues to occur.
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=RSi6g5-xUaY</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=ua_QL9YysHQ</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=VLFpU9aqtXc</ref>
|-
|Amazon allows fraudulent listings
|2014 – Present
|
|Fraudulent listings continue to be added, some removed.
|[[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review]]
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=qZCMislL6_I</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=7trdHLtsFKM</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=DiKflg8Uko4</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=y83BS_mK9GE</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=Rhb0ID9z4aE</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=XZNn2mO3dNQ</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=C0YNLWdj9sQ</ref>
|-
|Amazon allows sellers to bribe customers for better ratings
|2016 – Present
|Amazon sellers give customers gift cards in exchange for positive product reviews; Amazon does nothing to stop this.
|Continues to occur.
|[[Amazon's history of seller bribery]]
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=eS698R-bxuc</ref>
|-
|Amazon has bad marketplace algorithms
|2023 – Present
|
|Algorithms still seem to be nonbeneficial.
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=tAaSXz8CBMc</ref>
|-
|Amazon trashes refurbished market
|2022–2023
|
|Unknown
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=h3qgbvq2SWs</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=qzUXmeaZsIQ</ref>
|-
|Amazon cancels associate account after recent negative media coverage, with a different reason
|2023
|
|Unknown
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kcohq313q00</ref>
|-
|Amazon wrongfully suspends account of home owner
|2023
|A home owner was locked out of their Amazon account for nearly a week, after a delivery driver from Amazon misheard an automated message from their Eufy doorbell.
|Account reinstated.
|[[Amazon locks home owner out of Amazon account over allegation by Amazon delivery driver|Amazon locks home owner out of amazon account over allegation by amazon delivery driver]]
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=SyEgD-5GK9c</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=NfiIXooD77s</ref>
|-
|Amazon engages in anticompetitive behavior
|2021–2022
|
|Unknown
|
|<ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=YBJoSGWdP0Y</ref> <ref group="Video References">https://youtube.com/watch?v=XCLx4mVJ4gk</ref>
|-
|Amazon sells fake electrical fuses
|2023
|Fuses are being sold that do not blow when supplied more power than it is intended to handle, which is a major safety risk.
|These fuses are still being sold to this day.
|[[Amazon allows fraudulent product page after manual review! Deep dive on Amazons support of scams]]
|<ref group="Video References">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU</ref>
|-
|Amazon PhotosPlus discontinuation
|2024
|
|Since September 2024, it is no longer possible to use the Amazon Echo Show 8 as a digital frame without advertisements.
|[[Amazon PhotosPlus Discontinuation]]
|
|-
|Amazon uses [[dark patterns]] for its premium subscription
|2023 – Present
|Systematically designing the cancelling steps to be complicated and long; using tricks to kidnap users into the subscription.<ref>{{cite web |date=2023-06-21 |title=FTC Takes Action Against Amazon for Enrolling Consumers in Amazon Prime Without Consent and Sabotaging Their Attempts to Cancel |url=https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250129015417/https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/06/ftc-takes-action-against-amazon-enrolling-consumers-amazon-prime-without-consent-sabotaging-their |archive-date=2025-01-29 |website=Federal Trade Commission |url-status=live}}</ref> See "Project Illiad".
|Continues to occur.
|
|
|-
|Amazon removes option to lend Kindle e-books
|2022
|E-books marked with "lending enabled" could be lent to other Kindle users for a period of time during which the title is unavailable to the sender.
|Since August 2022, it is not possible to borrow Kindle books.
|
|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAvFmnuZZMI '''Amazon Discontinues Lending Kindle e-Books''']
|-
|Amazon removes option not to send voice recordings from Echo devices
|2025
|In March 2025, Echo customers with the option "Do Not Send Voice Recordings" enabled received an e-mail that local processing will no longer be supported on their device.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-03-18 |title=TechLinked – Microsoft’s Big Oopsie – Echo voice recordings, Gemini watermarks |url=https://youtu.be/DhXH83O6pXc?t=268 |access-date=2025-03-18 |website=YouTube – TechLinked}}</ref>
|
|[[Amazon Echo changes terms of voice usage]]
|
|-
|Amazon discontinues Appstore for Android devices
|2025
|On August 20, 2025, Amazon will remove Android devices' access to the Amazon Appstore.
|Android apps downloaded through the Amazon Appstore will cease to function.
|[https://www.androidauthority.com/amazon-shuts-down-android-app-store-3528170/ Amazon pulls the plug on its Android app store that you never used anyway]
|
|-
|Amazon fights against unionization
|1994 - Present
|Ever since its creation, Amazon has demonstrated anti-union efforts. This has even gone to the point of being in the training videos for employees, invoking fear in any who resist this corporate hold.
|
|
|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpwVwFxyk4 Amazon trains against unionizing]
[https://newlaborforum.cuny.edu/2021/11/15/crushing-unions-by-any-means-necessary-how-amazons-blistering-anti-union-campaign-won-in-bessemer-alabama/ Article on Anti-unionism of Amazon]
|-
|Amazon removes kindle books from user libraries.
|2009
|In 2009, Amazon removed 2 illegally published books, Animal Farm and 1984, from sale and user libraries, along with any notes and annotations made by the reader. Others have also reported missing books from their libraries.
|Those affected have been given refunds and there haven't been any further documented cases of books being removed from readers' libraries, although user reports are still prevalent.<ref>{{Cite web |last=A |first=Georgie |date=13 Nov 2022 |title=Bought books removed by Amazon. |url=https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D56Q0000ALx14HSQR/bought-books-removed-by-amazon |url-status=live |access-date=12 Aug 2025 |website=Amazon}}</ref>
|[https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html Amazon Erases Orwell Books From Kindle]
|
|-
|Amazon purposely delays assisting customers with lost packages
|2025
|Amazon has been found delaying assistance to customers who contact customer service to report issues with a order (i.e., a missing package). Amazon states they are unable to take any action until a certain date, delaying the resolution process further in hopes the customer will not contact them again to request a refund.
|Unknown
|
|
|-
|Amazon adds ads on the lockscreen's of Amazon Fire Tablets & Amazon Kindle
|2012 - Present
|Amazon shows ads on both the Kindle & Fire Tablets lockscreen's to get money out of your purchases makes you pay a fee to remove them. This only applies to the cheaper models.
|This practice still occurs, but is very easy to remove through a quick search.
|[https://xdaforums.com/t/windows-linux-tool-fire-toolbox-v42-1.3889604/ Fire Toolbox]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=T70xcAGUDQ4cR5PwPR Learn More About Ads On Kindle Fire and Fire Tablet - Amazon]
|
|}

==Products==

===Amazon Kindle (2007–Present)===
Amazon has progressively removed options for products purchased through the Kindle, effectively changing the meaning of purchases and ownership. It first removed the ability of users to lend e-books to one another, and later removed the ability to download purchased e-books to a computer.

===Amazon PhotosPlus (2023–2024)===
Amazon sold physical devices that could displaying photos stored in its Amazon Photos cloud storage through its PhotosPlus service. Less than one year later, it cancelled the service, which [[Retroactively amended purchase|changed the functionality]] of the devices, including showing advertisements every few hours.

===Amazon Prime (2005–Present)===
Amazon uses [[dark patterns]] for its subscription services, including tricking users into subscribing and making it very complicated to cancel. Moreover, some features of the service, such as free deliveries, are region locked to where you initially subcribed, forcing you to buy another subscription to be able to use the service.{{CitationNeeded}}

===Amazon Appstore (2011–Present)===
Amazon Appstore is the primary app store for Amazon's Fire devices, and is also available on other Android devices. On August 20, 2025, Amazon will remove access to the app store for all non-Fire devices. All apps installed from the Amazon Appstore will cease to function. Fire devices will continue to be able to access the Amazon Appstore. As of July 2025, there has been no mention of restitution for users who may have purchased paid apps through the Amazon Appstore.

===Amazon Echo (2014–Present)===

===Amazon Alexa (2013–Present)===
On July 1st 2024, Amazon removed 3rd party list support from the Alexa service, resulting in only lists hosted by Amazon being supported<ref>{{Cite web |access-date=2025-09-16 |title=Deprecated Features |website=Amazon Developer Documentation |url=https://developer.amazon.com/en-US/docs/alexa/ask-overviews/deprecated-features.html#shopping-lists |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250522134122/https://developer.amazon.com/en-US/docs/alexa/ask-overviews/deprecated-features.html#shopping-lists |archive-date=2025-05-22 }}</ref>. While it is still possible to manage lists via Alexa skills, these now require the skill activation phrase to be used (e.g. "Alexa, ask AnyList to add XYZ to my shopping list"). This followed from a [[Google#Google Assistant 3rd Party List Support|similar move by Google]] in 2023.

===All Louis Rossmann videos covering Amazon===

<references group="Video References" />

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Amazon]]
[[Category:Articles in need of additional work]]

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2025-11-06T08:00:19Z

Drakeula: /* Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
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*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer_Rights_Wiki_talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
 
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Itron article has been flagged for questionable relevance.==

I believe the [[Itron]] article has been mistakenly flagged for questionable relevance. I have added several Incidents to the page to further show Itron's systemic patterns of consumer privacy violations please see the below:

''Itron's Smart meters allow them to collect, process, and store data without the end users' knowledge. (1980-Present)''

''NYSEG requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (November 2022-Present)''

''CenterPoint Energy requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face one-time and monthly service charges (Unknown-Present)''

''Southern California Edison requires customers to switch to Itron Smart meters or face monthly charge (Unknown-Present)''

Smart meter (and smart grid solutions) usage by utility companies involves a lot of layers but these are what I find to be most concerning:

''Lack of data privacy, utility companies can freely share customer data with third party smart meter companies (such as Itron) without customer knowledge.''

''Lack of freedom to choose whether or not you have a smart meter recording your electricity usage. This data can be used to infer all sorts of things from what kind of appliances you own to when you are home.''

''Itron's Data Processing Agreement is un-viewable (at least for me) and not easy to find either, and end users typically do not know they will have an Itron smart meter until after it is installed by their electric company.''

Itron is not the only smart meter and smart grid solutions game in town but they are big and not end user friendly,.

Thank Mods! [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 19:11, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

:So sorry for not getting to this sooner.
:For now, I've changed the relevancy tag to an incomplete one (lacking verification), the issue being that there are no sources that actually implicate itron in having done anything wrong, with most of the stuff surrounding 'maybe it could be/has been hacked' being authorial speculation insofar as I can tell.
:There's also no secondary reporting - i.e. no media sources cited as framing any of these things as a problem. This is something which should be there to demonstrate notability. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
::Understood, unfortunately most of the articles I found the place blame on the distribution companies for invasive policies. The real issue is Itron has unlimited access to any of their smart meters data with out the end users knowledge. I am not quite sure how to capture this topic fully. [[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] ([[User talk:Privacywarrior|talk]]) 14:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Privacywarrior|Privacywarrior]] Not mad at you or anything but on Wikipedia at least its common practice to not edit the archive at all although I see why you did it, so I’ve reverted your edit there and added it back here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

==In the verifiability section, aren't government policies, regulations with propagandas/agendas allowed to be cited there?==

I'm just wondering if this can cause concerns for staffs in this wiki, for example [https://www.resecurity.com/blog/article/shinyhunters-attacked-vietnams-financial-system-cic-data-leak like this one] (there's english translation but it's all google translated and for full texts translation it's locked behind paywall, so apologies for that) [[User:Justarandomguy111|Justarandomguy111]] ([[User talk:Justarandomguy111|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure exactly what you're asking or how the link you shared is relevant [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:29, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==please delete all pages created by this user==

[[Special:Contributions/81.221.216.80|this user]] creates chatgpt raw output articles. While i dont doubt the relevance of the information, the method of creation is odd, and frankly, detrimental to this website's reputation. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:56, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:I’m not going to myself, but can one of the mods post a reminder to not do that? ChatGPT can be decent starting point '''if undetected''' and people keep updating it and it feels less sloppy, but this is out of hand. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, those ones are particularly bad. if they don't come back and clean them up by tomorrow I'll probably just delete them, as they're pretty much unusable as starting points [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:46, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==So many pages with stub/incomplete notices==

Hey there, I've been messing around pressing the random article button for a while. I've noticed that about 9/10 articles on this wiki have either a stub notice or a incomplete notice. I understand why : this wiki has limited resources to polish these articles and also wish not to add friction for article creation not to deter potential contributors. However, in my opinion, it kinda ruins the image of the website. It looks unpolished, unfinished and amateur.

Is there some plan to eventually add a little friction to the system, to incentivize polishing and finishing articles. I understand this can be complicated, but right now articles are being created with a title and maybe two or three links and then left there to rot. Dont get me wrong, I am also guilty of this, though i wish i werent, and i wish there was a system preventing this kind of low-effort-good-faith contribution.

thank you for hearing me [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 22:27, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

:Not a mod and this may be completely wrong (especially as I don’t use discord) but I think they just want to make articles for now and later polish them. The thing is that I’m pretty sure this is how Wikipedia developed, with just making articles and later on polishing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:56, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:There will absolutely be a tightening of standards later down the line, but ultimately the reason it looks unfinished is because, at present, it *is* unfinished. There'll be a lot of work needed to get it to the point where the articles have the kind of average quality we'd want them to. At the moment we really can't afford to be picky with contributions, and have to embrace the 'something is better than nothing' mentality. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==Can a mod please remove this?==

Can a mod remove the sloppyai tags [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|on my userpage]] and [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox|my sandbox page]]? The abuse filter is making impossible to remove. Just delete the part that says SloppyAI which is in the first paragraph on both. Thanks! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:01, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:I don't see a SloppyAI notice [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::You will see SloppyAI with two curly brackets around it, not the full notice. I forgot to clarify. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you mean where it says: "Apparently, adding template {{sloppyai}} is a crime." [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:53, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 12:58, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Done <nowiki>{{Smiley}}</nowiki> [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::Well that didn't work [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::To do it, click the source button and then try. What happened was it put <nowiki> tags around it (which basically make it ignore wikitext) because it detected wiki markup in visualeditor, which it doesn’t allow. Putting this in source: {{Smiley}}. I can’t believe I had to do that just to remove it though! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 13:06, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page Category:Trading_card_companies to be deleted.

argument : it is redundant with Category:Playing_card_manufacturers

Both have 1 element : Nintendo, though the latter is embedded within Category:Game_manufacturers and the former not, thus it can be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

i wish the page [[:Category:Information_technology_companies]] to be deleted

argument : it serves no purpose. all items should be moved to [[:Category:Technology_companies]]

please it will help tidy things up : an impossible task. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 20:57, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} (about to do when first typing this) but it might take a little bit to move everything over. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:50, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==deletion request==

I wish the page [[:Category:Canadian_Internet_Providers_-_Circumvent_CRTC_protection_-_Time_based_increases.]]

argument : It is a byproduct of an old spelling mistake. I've cleaned up the mess a bit. this page now needs to be deleted [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:10, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:actually all pages in [[Special:UnusedCategories]] [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:16, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
::{{Done}} partially (only removed the specific category you mentioned) but a [[Special:UnusedCategories]] cleanup will be done by me in the near future. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:47, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Also, you can also use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|Deletionrequest template]] for this as although it might not be done very quickly, it is generally cleaner and easier for admins. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:52, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::::will do. I didnt know i was allowed to use it. [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 18:59, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, anyone can use that to mark an article. It won't delete it, it just adds a notice for a mod to delete it (although it can be a bit slow at times!) [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==page categories.==

Hi i'd like some clarification regarding categories.

from what i've noticed, each page has a category with the page name as a name. ex: Apple has a Category:Apple.

Now, does that mean all other "tags" go in Category:Apple or should they go in Apple ? Or both ? (by "tags" i mean "Category:Technology_company" or "Category:Video_game")

Please clarify this as both methods are currently used through this wiki.

Thank you for your time and hard work. I want to help out more but this question needs a definitive answer before [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, I’m pretty sure all tags are meant to go in the category:Apple, although some pages may have lots of categories when there’s only a few in the actual category for it (or none if there’s no category). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
::I’m also going to link to [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Categorization]] because of how good it is as a resource for learning about categories. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 05:27, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
:::thanks. i hadnt found that page. i will give it a good read [[User:Plankton|Plankton]] ([[User talk:Plankton|talk]]) 21:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==I've added the 'nocat' parameter to Citation needed==

Just letting mods know because if you see ANY issues with the citation needed template, then please immediately rollback the edits I have made. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:15, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

==My submission is fine and the notice is not accurate nor able to discern context of the submission==

The sources are actually threaded conversations. I'm not sure how the bot thinks a link to a threaded forum is a news article.

I worked hard making sure my first submission was encompassing.

Yes the "titles" of the forum posts sourced may not be the same as my wiki title here as those are not my posts and would you rather not put the titles of the forum posts?, i made sure to include a "why it matters" section to clarify certain aspects stated in those threads that pertain to the issue at hand. The topic INSIDE OF THE THREADS on the forum posts were exactly pertinent.

If my submission is eligible for deletion then i'm unsure how anything gets published here. I seriously think the bot that looks over submissions needs refinement if it flags my submission like that. Also, realistically a submission page with form fields is the way to go for this. Normal people are not wiki site gurus and template perfect people. They will never use the site. I understand this is outside the scope of this particular message, but I think there are some people that have a very good grasp on wiki sites, template adherence, shortcuts, that completely confusing to a normal person cite page that gets linked and overall these people are flagging posts that normal people are trying to make. The average person that comes into contact with company issues that this site proclaims to want to address will not be able to abide by the standards of a wiki style submission process if this is the outcome of when they sincerely try to contribute. (Again, it should just be form fields and a submit button.)

Nevertheless, I am posting here as directed by the robot. [[Special:Contributions/66.191.58.153|66.191.58.153]] 09:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

:On the off-topic remark (I do not know what your original submission was), I agree that the Visual editor UI could be a bit easier to use.
:Some important "Insert" items like Citations should not be under a "More" menu (Windows 11 right click vibes); it took me about 15 minutes to find a source and add my first proper citation despite being a somewhat tech-savvy person. (Although, I started here making '''edits''' and thus did not see the Citation "tutorial" within the Create an article page, only the
:There could also be a quick link(s) within the editor (like the ? button) to CRW's Wiki policy with helpful description like "Contains rules, writing guidelines and the mission statement to ensure the Wiki remains credible."
:In my opinion, starting to edit wikis really feels like booting up CS 1.6 as a first timer, going on multiplayer servers and getting 20 deaths in a row for not already knowing how to wallbang. This is okay for late night LAN parties, not so motivating when people make their first contribution and get edit summaries that aren't directly constructive in their email.
:Nevertheless I could be wrong on these points. I appreciate discussion and feedback. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
::There are a lot of quirks with MediaWiki in general (the software is 20 years old at this point), and especially for this new wiki that has a lot of bugs and UI stuff to work out. There's supposed to be a major UI haul within the next few months or so, so hopefully that will address some of these issues you mentioned.
::Ctrl+Shift+K is a keyboard shortcut for adding citations. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:56, 21 October 2025 (UTC)
:Hi. Which article specifically are you referring to? [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 16:53, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

==Spam articles==

I've checked [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=13 Filter 13's log] and there seems to be a consistent stream of spam articles shown there. Should we block the users doing this? I assume so, but I want to be sure. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

:Normally, we would consider this, but the types of users that end up filling up this log tend to make several accounts at a time, making blocking effectively useless. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Question on wiki scope==

This wiki has a Legislation category, covering existing legislation.

I'd like to write up my ideas for things that could be considered for future legislation (as a matter of fact, I started: [[User:CorpoBlight/Product quality - and manufacturer incentives]]). But after I started, I began to wonder if it was in-scope for this wiki or not. If too far away from the preferred direction of this wiki, any suggestions for a different wiki where it would fit better? To be clear, I am ''not'' a lawyer. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 20:11, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be outside of scope for the wiki as personal opinion write ups or personal interpritations of law aren't really within scope. Please let us know if you have any other questions about this. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:52, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal deletion of xbox==

[[Xbox]] was proposed for deletion based on its not having been edited in a long time. I think it should be kept. The Microsoft article has several items that would be appropriate for xbox. I have seen enough commentary on xbox and the direction it is going, etc. that I am sure there are sources out there to make a good article. There are a lot of pages that link to the page, so it is probably important.
Having stubs helps the wiki grow. Gives a place for people to expand. Gives reminders of, oh yeah, that thing. Creating a stub article is a pain, why should somebody have to do it again?
If people propose deletion just because something hasn't been worked on in a while, what do they want? Editors to periodically go around and touch every article they think is worthwhile? [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 00:37, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], The Wiki tends to remove articles that have not been worked on in order to improve the perceived quality of the place. If you wish to fill in the article accordingly, I can gladly remove the deletion notice from the article for you. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 01:17, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Where is this policy documented/explained? There are several problems with the policy which I would like to be sure have been discussed, and I am interested in participating in the discussion.
::In this case the article has sat unmodified for at most 2 months. That seems absurdly short for a timeout.
::The policy feels very manipulative, "work on this or the article gets it." Xbox is not my priority, but it will probably be someones. It is a shame to lose what progress is made every time somebody has other things in their life.
::I have a few main interests (AI at the moment), but dabble in lots of other things. I would rather be free to improve things here and there as I feel. The policy plainly penalizes that work style.
::(The Mary Condo follower uses a hammer to put in a screw because the screwdriver did not bring them joy. The eclectic person uses a hammer to put in a screw because they can't find one of their dozens of screwdrivers among all their other tools.)
::In general this policy seems extremely short-sighted for the wiki. Why should I work on this wiki if anything I am working on will be deleted if I get busy for a couple of months, or after I move on to other things? So I will not adopt the xbox article, but I will try to advocate to extend protection for it and all the orphans, and thereby help grow the wiki.
::I have more to say, but will save it until I find what has been said and the right place to say it. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 02:12, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]], the Xbox article has been in an excessively unfinished state for more than a month. Policy generally states that we need to remove barely-developed articles after 1 month. Our general expectation is that if a user is going to create an article, that they at least fill in the framework within 1 week of creation, but we give extra leeway.
:::Of course, please remember that just because a page is deleted, it does not mean that it cannot be made again! [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:39, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] Where are these policies stated on the wiki?
::::I just looked through [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Wiki policy index]] and couldn't find anything there about the 1 month rule, nor the 1 week expectation. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:25, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd say there is a difference between starting an article, and literally just filling in the page creation form and nothing else. On the Xbox article, even just the amount of text you've added is enough for me to be happy leaving it as a stub instead of deleting it (and as such I have removed the deletion notice). [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:53, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with both points. While the Create a Page flow suggest a standard for an acceptable article: "if you're not going to be able to get the very basics of a page created today (a basic statement of wht <nowiki>{{sic}}</nowiki> the article's about with a couple of references), it might be better to make a draft in your [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:How_to_use_your_user_space|user space]]." which suggest people disobeying the notice not reading due to the attention spans of today; I have to ask if there are measures that prevent or atleast warn articles being published with (1) no citations or (2) sections with template infoboxes. (I would verify this, but don't want to accidentally create a page as a result. If such a system isn't present yet it's understandable, probably harder than I imagine to implement it.) [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:19, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], because the wiki is intended to allow users without accounts to create pages, we cannot design a system to remind them to work on their unfinished articles. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], I don't mean "remind", I mean "prevent" like how one would disable a submit button in a webpage if some requirements are not met. Apologies for any unclear wording on my side [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Raster|Raster]], unfortunately this is not a system we can enforce without excessively modifying the codebase of MediaWiki. [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 03:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]], that's understandable. Thank you for the reply. I was going to suggest putting such a warning in the new page info boxes, but not sure where to put in a way people will actually read it. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 03:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, to be a bit more specific, because pages are created through the form, a page will always be first created as an unfinished template. that's why we generally leave a day to allow newly submitted articles to be edited into their 'starting state' before worrying about article notices and so on. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:51, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Template "Userspace Draft" copied from wikipedia==

I tried to use the [[Template:Userspace draft|Userspace_draft]] template, only to find that it didn't exist. I started with the source of that template from wikipedia, updating the wording a bit and deleting quite a bit.

I commented out a chunk that caused an error "'''Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "[".'''" I couldn't see how the chunk in question could cause that error, so someone with more mediawiki template experience may wish to take a look. [[User:CorpoBlight|CorpoBlight]] ([[User talk:CorpoBlight|talk]]) 05:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==Warning: Prohibited words detected?==

It's telling me this, but it won't tell me what I've said wrong.

Can't save the page as a result. How can I find out what words are wrong so I can remove them. I can't find a list anywhere on the site + the error doesn't really tell me much. Also, the page I'm editing has a deletion request...but it will be fully populated with reference once I can edit and save my copy. Thanks in advance for your help. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 07:18, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

:Hello, this is because of the abuse filter, which blocks edits it thinks are harmful. The edit it blocked you from sending seems completely fine and was a false positive, so I'll make the change on your behalf. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:21, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Hi, I'm also here because I ran afoul of this filter. My edit does affect about every line of the Article Suggestions table (it's an attempt at alphabetisation) so I can see it looking Big and Awful to an automatic filter! [[User:Neuropirate|Neuropirate]] ([[User talk:Neuropirate|talk]]) 23:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} the edit and also confirmed you so you won’t have to deal with the filter that stopped you again. Also nice work putting it in alphabetical order! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:18, 26 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] for getting the edit, but I just wanted to add that if you create an account, then after a few edits you won't need to worry about the filters or similar. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 07:48, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you to @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] as well.
::And you know @[[User:Keith|Keith]], you make a good point. This was kind of supposed to be a one time thing...but maybe it shouldn't be. I'll go ahead and register. [[Special:Contributions/84.239.50.131|84.239.50.131]] 16:43, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

==How does thanking edits work? Some questions;==

This is the first Wiki I've seen with such a cool and human feature, but I need to know if I'm using it correctly instead of just baffling everyone with how much I click them buttons in the Recent Changes page. So some questions:

#How public is "Publicly send thanks?" Does it appear anywhere else other than the Your notices section?
#Does it keep track of which edits have already been thanked? I see some that I have thanked acknowledge that upon a refresh, but most of the time I see the thank button appear again. In this case, does clicking it spam the person's notifications again? Or is this a browser cache issue?
#Assuming this is some sort of MediaWiki plugin, is it open source?

Personally I love my experience with it thus far, as I don't vibe with the idea of an online scoreboard. Thanks! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 12:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:1. It is mainly directed straight to the user being thanked, but if you go to [[Special:Log/thanks]], there is a thanks log there.
:2. I think you can spam notifications by thanking different edits, but I don’t think you can thank twice.
:3. It is a MediaWiki plugin, I think that it is after looking at [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks the page for it]. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 14:53, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice - Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used==

I believe [[Tesla Cybertruck voids warranty if Powershare feature is used|the article's]] wording now fits within [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|the guidelines]]. If there are still areas that need improvement tone-wise, do mention what they are. Thank you for your time [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 08:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:Done! Thanks for improving the article! [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 13:57, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal tone notice-Electronic Arts==

I believe that the [[Electronic arts|article]] fits under the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Editorial guidelines#Use of tone|guidelines]]. If it does, please mention what they are. [[User:Beef|Beef]] ([[User talk:Beef|talk]]) 13:44, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} sorry for delay! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:22, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==note for someone who can modify the localsettings.php file to jump at==

Although it has 'bot' flag, NewUserMessage still shows up in recent changes. I did a bit of digging and found out that all you need to fix it is a line in the localsettings.php file. Setting <code>$wgNewUserSuppressRC</code> to <code>true</code> should do the trick.

Also, just found before posting that to substitute the template (something I suggested earlier), putting any text in page <code>[[MediaWiki:Newusermessage-substitute]]‎</code> should do the trick (which will keep the message the same as when it was posted even when the template itself is updated, like doing it manually instead of via a template). [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

:This would be something that needs to be passed on to our tech folks. I'll let them know this exists - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 07:55, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

==Possible solution for hiding IPs?==

IPs have been shown for editing since the start of wikis, but it isn’t private for the IP users, and also Wikipedia is changing that now with temporary accounts. They will instead put it behind a random username, of sorts, that looks kinda like this: ~2025-8371-275. This is also viewable by the ‘temporary account IP viewer’ right or if users are CheckUsers (which I’m pretty sure isn't on the Wiki right now). This is also coming VERY soon, in 4 or so days on the English Wikipedia I think, so it can be implemented quickly. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

:Ok nice, if this comes out via mediawiki, hopefully we can just get it patched into the wiki [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:04, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

==Strangeness - Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Rules==

@[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] @[[User:Keith|Keith]]On the [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]] if I click on the discussion tab it takes me to [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Code of conduct]]. The content looks similar to the rules, but it is a talk page for a non-existent article.
Looking at the history, it looks like something that needs to be fixed by an admin who knows what was going on and which one is the real rules.
Since neither one looks like a talk page, thought better to mention it here. Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 05:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

:{{Done}} Hey I can delete articles too! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::Wait nevermind, I only deleted the redirect. I’m not sure what the code of conduct is about? I’ll move it out of talk namespace anyway. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:56, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Note for mods: Page now located at [[Project:Code of conduct]] [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:57, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 18:03, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Thank you, but this still leaves a confusing situation, where the (now orphaned) [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Code of conduct]] looks like an official policy, but it says different things than [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Rules]].
::::Please either:
::::# put a disclaimer box on it saying readers should ignore it (it is a draft).
::::# Move it to a namespace that makes it obvious that it isn't official (e.g. part of somebodies user page).
::::# If it isn't needed anymore, delete it (or blank the contents if want to keep the history).
::::# Protect it so only moderators can see it.
::::# Do something else to make it clear to the casual reader what its status is, and where to find the official version.
::::Thanks. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 08:00, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

==Who made the CRW logo?==

just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:20, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

Age verification

2025-11-06T07:47:20Z

Drakeula: /* Examples */

{{Incomplete}}
{{See also|Forced identification|De-anonymization}}

'''Age Verification''' (AV), also referred to as '''Age Affirmation''' (AA), is the process in where a business requires some form of identification to verify your age. This is usually done for more explicit or mature content. This practice has been widely spreading since the [[UK Online Safety Act|UK's Online Safety Act (OSA)]] has passed; requiring all individuals to verify themselves before accessing mature content. Ways of checking age include, but are not limited to: checking for a valid credit card, facial age estimation tools, government-issued ID, biometric data, account history behavior, and more.

==How it works==
When accessing a platform or website that may contain content not suitable for all audiences may force you to register for the platform along with verifying your age by one of the methods mentioned previously. Sites that likely don't use any form of account system will probably have a popup instead requiring you to verify your age before even serving the content you were trying to access.

==Why it is a problem==

===Privacy===
Having companies easily able to identify you means they can track you more efficiently and sell that shared profile to other companies such as ad agencies that then start targeting you specifically.

Governments can also more easily track online movements and find out who you are. Saying something that may go against their own agenda may end up with a police raid and heavy interrogation and prison time.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Liu |first=John |date=2025-06-20 |title=China tightens internet controls with new centralized form of virtual ID |url=https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/20/tech/china-censorship-internet-id-hnk-intl#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThis%20is%20a%20state%2Dled,an%20infrastructure%20of%20digital%20totalitarianism.%E2%80%9D |access-date=2025-09-04 |work=CNN}}</ref>

===Censorship===
Certain topics, such as adult content, politics, and LGBT+ topics, will likely be unfairly censored by the governing body or company that has a say on what platform has the '''potential''' to be inappropriate for minors or other age groups.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-09-01 |title=Strict Age Verification Laws: Balancing Content Restriction and Educational Rights |url=https://www.thinkacademy.ca/blog/strict-age-verification-laws-impact-k12-education/#:~:text=Impact%20on%20K12,affect%20these%20groups |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=Think Academy}}</ref><ref name=":0">{{Cite web |last=Kelley |first=Jason |last2=Mackey |first2=Aaron |last3=Mullin |first3=Joe |date=2024-02-15 |title=Don’t Fall for the Latest Changes to the Dangerous Kids Online Safety Act |url=https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/02/dont-fall-latest-changes-dangerous-kids-online-safety-act |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=Electronic Frontier Foundation}}</ref>

Platforms that host this type of content may also be more proactive in deleting/hiding posts that may get them in trouble or fined by laws or policies by local governments, leading to a more censored internet where opinions are streamlined to fit a set narrative or outlook.<ref name=":0" />

===Increased inequality and denial of service===
Some stores, such as grocery stores, prohibit young people from viewing their web sites or using [[loyalty cards]], which provide discounts and digital coupons. Age verification means that young people and families where the young person does the shopping pay more for essentials like food.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Pell |first=Miranda |date=25 Oct 2024 |title=Tesco, Lidl and Sainsbury's shoppers issued warning over little-known 'age limit' rules |url=https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/tesco-lidl-sainsburys-shoppers-issued-30233318 |access-date=20 Sep 2025 |work=Manchester evening news}}</ref> Those who do not have ID, or do not chose to use it (for instance, those who fear domestic violence, or are members of a group subject to persecution) may also be locked out or have to pay more.

===Storage of private and biometric Information by age verification service providers===
A study commissioned by the Australian government found that age verification service providers accumulate a concerning amount of personal information, sometimes even biometric in nature, even when that was not necessary to provide the age verification service.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Meineck |first=Sebastian |date=2025-09-03 |title=Anbieter von Alterskontrollen horten biometrische Daten [Age Verification Providers are hoarding biometric Data] |url=https://netzpolitik.org/2025/australisches-gutachten-anbieter-von-alterskontrollen-horten-biometrische-daten/ |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=Netzpolitik.org}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Meineck |first=Sebastion |date=2025-09-03 |title=Anbieter von Alterskontrollen horten biometrische Daten [Google Translate English Version] |url=https://netzpolitik-org.translate.goog/2025/australisches-gutachten-anbieter-von-alterskontrollen-horten-biometrische-daten/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=Netzpolitik.org}}</ref>

===Driving users towards smaller and completely unregulated offerings===
Big platforms can be regulated and forced to comply with applicable laws since they need to have infrastructure such as servers in all major markets. Only these will be affected by the age restriction requirement.

However, users who do not wish to compromise their privacy or who are not of age will then go looking towards smaller niche platforms, often in other regions not affected by the regulation or the darknet.<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Kaleta |first=Miroslav |date=2025-08-20 |title=The Cost of Data Privacy Negligence (And How to Avoid It) |url=https://countly.com/blog/data-privacy-negligence#:~:text=2.%20Losing%20Customer,IBM%20Report. |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=Countly Blog}}</ref> With these offerings, there is little to no leverage with regards to removal of illegal content. Increased exposure to illegal content can then lead to both a strengthening of illegal content providers<ref>{{Cite web |last=Branley |first=Dawn |last2=Covey |first2=Judith |date=2016-06-06 |title=Is exposure to online content depicting risky behavior related to viewers' own risky behavior offline? |url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217303357 |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=ScienceDirect}}</ref> and significantly increased danger to minors, who may not yet be able to differentiate between legal and illegal content as well as an adult.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-04 |title=Potential risks of content, features, and functions: The science of how social media affects youth |url=https://www.apa.org/topics/social-media-internet/youth-social-media-2024 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240416042251/https://www.apa.org/topics/social-media-internet/youth-social-media-2024 |archive-date=2024-04-16 |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=American Psychological Association}}</ref>

===Increased damage from data breaches===
Platforms which implement age checks that require sensitive information such as a government-issued ID will likely be more of a target for cyber criminals.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-04-02 |title=Cybercriminals Target These Industries the Most – Here’s Why and How to Stay Safe |url=https://brandefense.io/blog/cybercriminals-target-these-industries/#:~:text=The%20Most%20Vulnerable%20Industries%20to,information%20stored%20within%20their%20networks. |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=Brandefense}}</ref> As more platforms comply with the age checks, it becomes more likely that a data breach on at least one of these platforms can reveal extremely sensitive information. In the case of a data breach, it can be catastrophic if users' sensitive information were exposed, which can likely result in identity theft.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Popov |first=Cristina |date=2023-03-22 |title=Why breaches can affect you long after they occur |url=https://www.bitdefender.com/en-us/blog/hotforsecurity/why-breaches-can-affect-you-long-after-they-occur#:~:text=%232%3A%20Breaches%20can,for%20online%20accounts. |access-date=2025-09-04 |website=Bitdefender}}</ref>

Platforms already experience major losses and consumer distrust from data breaches that reveal information less sensitive than government-issued IDs or biometric data.<ref name=":1" /> A data breach involving information this sensitive will seriously damage a business, and the users even more so. As stated previously, users who foresee these privacy risks will turn away from platforms which implement the policy, and towards niche platforms.

==Examples==
*[[YouTube]]'s Age verification and account estimation algorithm. (See [[Youtube age verification]] for more information)

*[[Spotify]]'s Age affirmation for MA rated songs and content.

*[[Discord]]'s Age verification for accounts determining what eligible servers are available.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Common terms]]

YouTube age verification

2025-11-06T07:45:45Z

Drakeula: wikilink age verification

{{StubNotice}}

{{IncidentCargo
|StartDate=2025-07-30
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=YouTube
|Product=Youtube
|ArticleType=Service
|Type=Digital restrictions
|Description=YouTube is requiring Users to give their government id to verify that they are adults, otherwise Users will be locked out of content.
}}
[[YouTube]] has implemented an AI-powered [[age verification]] system, which will scan the user's channel history to determine their age. If the user is deemed to be under the age of 18, they will lose access to age-restricted videos and certain site features, unless a government-issued ID or video verification is provided.

==Background==
[[YouTube]] is a social media site created on February 14th, 2005.<ref>{{Cite web |title=YouTube turns 20! The numbers behind the platform |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/ztq2g2p |url-status=live |access-date=14 Aug 2025 |website=BBC Bitesize}}</ref> It allows users to upload and view videos from their electronic devices. As the platform has grown in popularity, a few content creators have begun to make significant amounts of revenue from their videos, with some creators able to use their earnings as a primary source of income.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Creator Economy |url=https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/creator-economy/#:~:text=Revenue%20Sharing,the%20Shorts%20Feed. |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |website=YouTube}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Molenaar |first=Koba |title=15 of the Most Popular Content Creators on YouTube to Check Out |url=https://influencermarketinghub.com/content-creators-youtube/ |url-status=live |access-date=14 Aug 2025 |website=Influencer Marketing Hub}}</ref>

==YouTube's Government ID Requirement==
On July 29th, 2025, in response to the [[UK Online Safety Act|UK's Online Safety Act]],<ref>{{Cite web |title=Online Safety Act: explainer |url=https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-safety-act-explainer/online-safety-act-explainer |url-status=live |access-date=14 Aug 2025 |website=GOV.UK}}</ref> [[YouTube]] announced that it will be testing a new feature on its platform which scans each user's channel history (including viewed videos) with AI, to which in case of determination that the user is underage (regardless of birth date in their [[Google]] account), a government issued ID or video verification will be required to verify that the user is at least 18 years old.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Beser |first=James |date=29 Jul 2025 |title=Extending our built-in protections to more teens on YouTube |url=https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/extending-our-built-in-protections-to-more-teens-on-youtube/#:~:text=We%20will%20use,for%20younger%20users. |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |website=YouTube Official Blog}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Ingram |first=Michael |date=30 Jul 2025 |title=YouTube is Rolling Out A New Controversial Feature |url=https://gamerant.com/youtube-new-age-verification-feature-id-recognition/ |url-status=live |access-date=14 Aug 2025 |website=GameRant}}</ref> If the user decides not to, their account will be unable to access age restricted, "potentially mature content" (which has been shown to include several videos critical of [[Google]] and [[YouTube]]{{Citation needed}}, whether by coincidence or not) and content deemed as problematic for repetitive consumption, on top of losing access to many creator features and abilities, if they were activated prior.

Youtube is now requiring creators to reupload IDs and video verification on a yearly basis to keep access to advanced features. If they don't, they will lose access to those features, and sending a message to allow them to keep the video verification for longer. <ref>{{Cite web |date=22 Aug 2025 |title=Youtube ID age verification can EXPIRE? |url=https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xt33K4LNMIo |access-date=22 Aug 2025 |website=Youtube}}</ref>

YouTube has [https://x.com/TeamYouTube/status/1950958354349633946 responded] stating that "This won’t be required for all users. We’ve always had the option for age verification via ID or credit card if someone is incorrectly estimated to be under 18 — this update is about using better technology to make these estimations." This most likely refers to their eligibility system for advanced creator features, of which ID and/or video verification is a method of gaining access.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Learn about feature access for YouTube Creators |url=https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9890437?hl=en |url-status=live |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |website=YouTube Help}}</ref>

==Consumer response==
Some users have signed a [https://www.change.org/p/youtube-s-ai-tracks-everything-you-watch-stop-this-now Change.org petition] (with 129,042 verified signatures as of 27. Oct. 2025) and have contacted YouTube to revoke this new requirement.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Belanger |first=Ashley |date=12 Aug 2025 |title=YouTube backlash begins: “Why is AI combing through every single video I watch?” |url=https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/08/50k-youtubers-rage-against-ai-spying-that-could-expose-identities/ |url-status=live |access-date=14 Aug 2025 |website=Ars Technica}}</ref> The petition has not received a response from YouTube as of the time of writing.

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:YouTube]]

Canva Affinity Studio adds arbitration clause

2025-11-06T07:33:45Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Canva adds arbitration clause for future Affinity Studio users to Canva Affinity Studio adds arbitration clause: Company - product - particulars

{{Incomplete|Issue 1=Too many external links. Should be reformatted as proper citations and references}}

Canva, the company that acquired Serif (parent company of Affinity and its respective graphic editing software) recently removed the ability for users to purchase older versions of the Affinity applications; the new software, Affinity Studio, requires users to create or sign into a Canva account, thereby requiring the user's agreement to an arbitration clause among other agreements not present in the retired Serif versions of Affinity applications, Photo, Designer, and Publisher.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Thacker |first=Tim |date=2025-10-12 |title=Why has Serif stopped selling its Affinity software? |url=https://www.cgchannel.com/2025/10/why-has-serif-stopped-selling-its-affinity-software/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/iuZhr |archive-date=2025-11-02 |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=cgchannel}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=30 Oct 2025 |title=Terms of Use |url=https://www.canva.com/policies/terms-of-use/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/RNeoi |archive-date=2025-11-02 |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=Canva}}</ref>

==Background==
Serif was the parent company behind Affinity, first founded in 1987 and known for creative tools used by professional graphic designers and photographers. In the last decade, users will best-know of Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo, and Affinity Publisher (as well as the respective V2 variants which were released in late 2022).<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=2024-03-25 |title=Canva Acquires Design Platform Affinity to Bring Professional Design Tools to Every Organization |url=https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240325965656/en/Canva-Acquires-Design-Platform-Affinity-to-Bring-Professional-Design-Tools-to-Every-Organization |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=BusinessWire}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2022-11-09 |title=Press Release - Affinity Version 2 sets new standards in creative software |url=https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-v2-sets-new-standards-in-creative-software/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20221109150704/https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-v2-sets-new-standards-in-creative-software/ |archive-date=2022-11-09 |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=Affinity Serif}}</ref>

In early 2024, Canva acquired the Affinity Design Platform which expanded Canva's reach to include a large group of people ranging from amateurs to professionals in the photography and graphic design space.<ref name=":0" /> Canva is primarily a subscription service that offers tools for graphic design, and they've been acquiring various pieces of software in recent years.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-09-06 |title=Acquisitions by Canva - List of Canva's Acquisitions |url=https://tracxn.com/d/acquisitions/acquisitions-by-canva/__LHKOZhxQIkd1nKd00xe8ZiSIZ1WlxGLsiY4nuztOWOY#list-of-acquisitions |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=Tracxn}}</ref> In 2024 after the acquisition, there was a Pledge that included remaining fair, transparent, and having affordable pricing in addition to maintaining perpetual licenses.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-03-27 |title=The Affinity and Canva Pledge |url=https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-and-canva-pledge/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251002083749/https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-and-canva-pledge/ |archive-date=2025-10-02 |access-date=2025-11-03 |website=Affinity/Serif Press Release}}</ref>

===Software Activation (Affinity V2 and older software)===
To activate Affinity V2 software purchased from the Serif website, users must temporarily sign into their Serif account (which would've been created at the time of purchasing a license), but users can then sign out at anytime from a dialog box within each of the three applications, Photo, Designer, and Publisher.

==Incident==
At the start of October 2025 (approximately [https://web.archive.org/web/20251002034439/https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/ October 2nd based on Serif website archives]), the store page offering the V2 suite of Affinity applications was taken down, removing user's ability to purchase a new license to the V2 software; the [https://web.archive.org/web/20251002041803/https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/ main page (archived here)] displayed the text, "Creative Freedom Is Coming," and displaying the date, October 30th. On October 30th, the main Serif page announced that new Affinity Studio software arrived, encouraging viewers to visit the new [https://www.affinity.studio/ Affinity.Studio website] where users can download Affinity Studio, an application that is said to combine all three older Affinity applications into one and also adds Canva-backed features into the software.

As soon as October 3rd, 2025, there was [https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/235901-revealing-the-future-of-affinity/ discussion and speculation on a Serif forum] discussing the future of Affinity, and the original post reflects many aspects that happened, including that Affinity's software became free, that the new version of Affinity would be separated from the older versions, and that AI would be part of the new software. The post included concern that the forum may eventually be discontinued, and as of November 2nd, 2025, the forums are set to "read only." A pinned notice indicates that the forums went to read-only mode on October 6th, 2025, but Patrick Conner, the individual who wrote the read-me linked in the notice, indicated that the forums would still remain available, just without the ability to create new posts.

===The new software is free, but...===
The new Affinity Studio application is available free of charge to download, but with an asterisk for at least two reasons.

*First, users of Affinity Studio are required [https://www.canva.com/product-suite-integration/authn/affinity?redirect_uri=https://www.affinity.studio%2Fen%2Fdownload&source=download_login_redirect&locale=en sign into Canva's website] to download the new Affinity Studio application. This means users must agree to both [https://www.canva.com/policies/terms-of-use/ Canva's Terms of Use] (last updated October 30th, 2025) and the [https://www.canva.com/policies/affinity-additional-terms/ Affinity Additional Terms]; the dialog also prompts users to read the [https://www.canva.com/policies/privacy-policy/ Canva Privacy Policy]. Creating a Canva account automatically opts the user in to data collection and AI training on user data, though this currently only seems to affect the Canva web app. Users can [https://www.canva.com/account/privacy-preferences opt out here]. The ''Affinity Terms'' page also includes the following passage: <blockquote>If your Agreement allows multiple Users within your team to access the Affinity Software, then: […] Canva or its authorized agent will be entitled to enter onto your premises with reasonable notice to audit your use of the Affinity Software. This provision will survive termination of this License.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-30 |title=Affinity Terms |url=https://www.canva.com/policies/affinity-additional-terms/ |access-date=2025-11-03 |website=Canva}}</ref></blockquote>
*Second, while most of the main features previously included in Serif's application appear to be present, features already available through Canva have been added to the Studio app, and these Canva AI-powered features require a subscription to use them.<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Colbow |first=Brad |date=2025-10-30 |title=This? This was the Big Affinity and Canva Announcement? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZzh3zVX-Zk |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=YouTube / Brad Colbow}}</ref> This also includes features that rely on local (offline) machine learning models and incur no server processing costs, such as the "Create Depth Map" command, as well as the "Select Subject" command, which was previously available as part of the base toolset and is now only available via a subscription.
*It's not clear what the future holds in regards to the Affinity Studio software, and whether existing features may get moved behind a paywall among other concerns.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Blake |first=Alex |date=2025-10-31 |title=Affinity says its new Adobe-rivaling creative app is ‘free forever’ – here’s how that really works |url=https://www.techradar.com/computing/affinity-says-its-new-adobe-rivaling-creative-app-is-free-forever-heres-how-that-really-works |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251103054755/https://www.techradar.com/computing/affinity-says-its-new-adobe-rivaling-creative-app-is-free-forever-heres-how-that-really-works |archive-date=2025-11-03 |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=techradar}}</ref>

===Existing Serif/Affinity V2 users can still download install files and view their license info.===
As of November 2nd, 2025, users of the previous versions of Affinity software including V2 can still sign in via the [https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/v2/ Serif website] to view license info and downloads, including install files on both Windows and MacOS systems. On iPad, the V2 Affinity applications can be downloaded from the App Store free of charge.
==Consumer response==

Within days after (October 2nd, when) the ability to purchase V2 of the Affinity Applications was shut down, many showed concern and even fear that Affinity may become subscription-based, change the terms of the sale, or otherwise change things in ways undesirable to Affinity software users.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-04 |title=What is Going on with Affinity on Oct 30th? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qcHmHltkuk |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=YouTube / ben designs}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-02 |title=What's happening with Affinity? Subscription Coming? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedkKR-yhR8 |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=YouTube / Design Method}}</ref><ref name=":2" /> While the software didn't become entirely subscription-based, some newly added features are locked behind a subscription paywall including Canva-backed, AI-powered features.<ref name=":1" /> At this point in time as of November 2nd, 2025, it doesn't appear that previous agreements with the older software have changed, but users moving to Affinity Studio or new users starting to use Affinity Studio (Canva's new version of Affinity) will have to agree to new terms of service when creating or signing into a Canva account which includes agreeing to an arbitration clause.

There is still public concern over the longevity of the "free" software and whether existing features may one day get locked behind a paywall. The company claims that the app is free forever; in a social media post, Affinity says that there isn't a catch, that user data isn't being sold, that user creativity isn't being monetized, and that data isn't being used to train AI models.<ref name=":2" /> However, [https://www.canva.com/policies/privacy-policy/ Canva's Privacy Policy] indicates that information collected about their users is used for data analytics, service improvement (including analytics and machine learning), and for advertising purposes in addition to other purposes often included in a Privacy Policy.

There's also concern as to whether the older versions of Affinity that provided a perpetual license may some day be revoked.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-03 |title=Revealing the future of Affinity |url=https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/235901-revealing-the-future-of-affinity/ |access-date=2025-11-02 |website=Serif / Affinity Forums}}</ref> The EULA for the V2 Affinity applications indicate that Serif or Serif Licensors could suspend remove, modify, disable, or impose limits on access to Serif Software without notice or liability to the user, further increasing concern over if and when V2 or other Affinity Software may eventually be un-installable or otherwise rendered unusable for existing users.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Canva]]
[[Category:Serif]]
[[Category:Affinity]]
[[Category:Forced Arbitration]]
[[Category:2025 incidents]]

[[Category:Articles in need of additional work]]
[[Category:Articles requiring expansion]]

Canva Affinity Studio adds arbitration clause

2025-11-06T07:32:12Z

Drakeula: /* References */ remove comon terms

Microsoft

2025-11-06T06:35:57Z

Drakeula: /* See Also */ VSCode

{{Incomplete|Issue 1=Article needs to be broken up into sub-articles in order to make it more legible, organized, and navigable. use of main headings should also be improved|Issue 2=Elaboration needed on section(s) describing recent and ongoing anti-competitive lawsuits.|Issue 3=Elaboration needed on Bing and search engine under anti-competitive incidents.}}

{{CompanyCargo
| Founded = 1975
| Industry = Information Technology
| Logo = Microsoft_logo.png
| ParentCompany =
| Type = Public
| Website = https://www.microsoft.com/
| Description = Microsoft is one of the "Big Five" tech giants who has had issues ranging from antitrust issues to monopolies
}}[[Wikipedia:Microsoft|'''''Microsoft Corporation''''']] was founded in 1975 by ''Bill Gates'' and ''Paul Allen'' in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It is one of the "Big Five" tech giants, well known for licensing ''Q-DOS'' from ''Seattle Computer Product''s as ''MS-DOS'' prior to purchasing it in 1980, as well as being known for ''Windows'', the graphical extension to ''MS-DO''S. They have developed the ''Microsoft'' ''Office Suite: Access,'' ''Excel, PowerPoint, Publisher,'' and ''Word''; the ''Xbox'' under ''the Microsoft'' ''Gaming'' division; the ''Surface'' line of laptop devices; and the cloud platform ''Azure''.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Zachary |first=Gregg Pascal |last2=Hall |first2=Mark |last3=Montevirgen |first3=Karl |title=Microsoft-Corporation |url=https://www.britannica.com/money/Microsoft-Corporation |url-status=live |website=britannica.com}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Miller |first=Michael |date=August 12, 2021 |title=The Rise of DOS: How Microsoft Got the IBM PC OS Contract |url=https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract |url-status=live |website=PCmag}}</ref>

Through acquisitions, Microsoft owns numerous other tech-related businesses.<ref>{{Cite web |title=List of mergers and acquisitions by Microsoft |url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Microsoft |website=Wikipedia}}</ref>. Their most notable acquisitions include Skype, [[LinkedIn]], Github and [[Activision Blizzard]].

They also invest heavily in artificial intelligence enterprises like ''[[OpenAI]]'' (best known for creating ''ChatGPT'').<ref>{{Cite news |last=Vincent |first=James |date=July 22, 2019 |title=Microsoft invests $1 billion in OpenAI to pursue holy grail of artificial intelligence |url=https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/20703578/microsoft-openai-investment-partnership-1-billion-azure-artificial-general-intelligence-agi |work=The Verge}}</ref>

==Consumer impact summary==
Microsoft has engaged in significant anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices, often leading to lawsuits in relating to allegations of monopolistic behavior. Such lawsuits have featured Microsoft's practices of bundling Internet Explorer (and later, the Edge browser) with the Windows operating system, signing exclusive deals with original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to stifle competition, using [[wikipedia:Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish|"embrace, extend, extinguish"]] tactics to eliminate competitors, and other incidents. Microsoft was also featured within the [[wikipedia:2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures|Snowden leaks]] as being engaged in mass surveillance through the PRISM program<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |date=July 11, 2011 |title=Snowden Reveals Microsoft PRISM Cooperation: Helped NSA Decrypt Emails, Chats, Skype Conversations |url=https://www.ibtimes.com/snowden-reveals-microsoft-prism-cooperation-helped-nsa-decrypt-emails-chats-skype-conversations |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250701125316/https://www.ibtimes.com/snowden-reveals-microsoft-prism-cooperation-helped-nsa-decrypt-emails-chats-skype-conversations |archive-date=2025-07-01 |access-date=2025-08-18 |website=International Business Times}}</ref> and has been reported on for removing content from Bing to appease the Chinese government<ref>{{Cite web |last=Nicholas |first=Kristof |date=2009-11-20 |title=Boycott Microsoft Bing |url=http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/boycott-microsoft-bing/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20091123194315/http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/boycott-microsoft-bing/ |archive-date=2009-11-23 |access-date=2025-08-18 |website=The New York Times}}</ref>.

==Anti-competitive lawsuits==

===US Department of Justice, U.S. v. Microsoft Corp. (1998-2001)===
In a major antitrust case brought by the ''US Department of Justice'', ''U.S. v.'' Microsoft Corp'''''.''','' 253 F.3d 34 (D.C. Cir. 2001)<ref name=":5">{{Cite web |date=2001-06-28 |title=U.S. v. Microsoft Corp., 253 F.3d 34 (D.C. Cir. 2001) |url=https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/253/34/576095/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110413112825/https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/253/34/576095/ |archive-date=2011-04-13 |access-date=2025-08-19 |website=JUSTIA U.S. Law}}</ref>, Microsoft argued that there was no barrier to entry in the market they operated in. A central issue at that time was whether Microsoft could bundle the web browser ''Internet Explorer'' with the Microsoft Windows operating system. The District Court stated the following in the court case:<blockquote>"The District Court condemned a number of provisions in Microsoft's agreements licensing Windows to OEMs, because it found that Microsoft's imposition of those provisions (like many of Microsoft's other actions at issue in this case) serves to reduce usage share of ''Netscape''<nowiki/>'s browser and, hence, protect Microsoft's operating system monopoly."</blockquote>The court specifically identified three main license restrictions for [[Original Equipment Manufacturers]] (OEMs) that were considered problematic:

#The prohibition upon the removal of desktop icons, folders, and Start menu entries
#The prohibition of modifying the initial boot sequence
#The prohibition of otherwise altering the appearance of the Windows desktop

The case was eventually settled<ref>[https://www.justice.gov/atr/case-document/file/503541/dl "Final judgment of US v. Microsoft"] - justice.gov - accessed 2025-01-29</ref><ref>[https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/373/1199/474311/ "Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Ex Rel., Appellant, v. Microsoft Corporation"] - law.justia.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> and did not result in a company breakup.<ref>[https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/long-antitrust-saga-ends-for-microsoft/ "Long antitrust saga ends for Microsoft"] - seattletimes.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref>

Section III.H of the Consent Decree<ref>[https://www.justice.gov/atr/microsoft-consent-decree-compliance-advisory-august-1-2003-us-v-microsoft "Microsoft Consent Decree Compliance Advisory - August 1, 2003 : U.S. V. Microsoft"] - justice.gov - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> required ''Microsoft'' to "allow end users and OEMs to enable or remove access to all middleware products, including web browsers, e-mail clients, and media players through a readily accessible, centralized mechanism." End users and Original Equipment Manufacturers should be able "to specify a non-Microsoft middleware product as the default middleware product to be launched in place of the corresponding Microsoft middleware product."

In the case ''United States v.'' Microsoft Corp'''''.''','' 87 F. Supp. 2d 30 (D.D.C. 2000),<ref>[https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/87/30/2307082/ "United States v. Microsoft Corp., 87 F. Supp. 2d 30 (D.D.C. 2000)"] - law.justia.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> Microsoft's conduct in totality was described as a "deliberate assault upon entrepreneurial efforts that, could well have enabled the introduction of competition into the market for [[Intel]]-compatible PC operating systems". Furthermore, "Microsoft's anti-competitive actions trammeled the competitive process through which the computer software industry generally stimulates innovation and conduces to the optimum benefit of consumers."

====Summary of anti-competitive practices alleged in this lawsuit====
:*Slowing development of rival products like IBM and Apple through contractual or technical barriers.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=2002-01-25 |title=Competitive Processes, Anticompetitive Practices And Consumer Harm In The Software Industry: An Analysis Of The Inadequacies Of The Microsoft-Department Of Justice Proposed Final Judgment |url=https://www.justice.gov/atr/competitive-processes-anticompetitive-practices-and-consumer-harm-software-industry-analysis |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171115104834/https://www.justice.gov/atr/competitive-processes-anticompetitive-practices-and-consumer-harm-software-industry-analysis |archive-date=2017-11-15 |access-date=2025-08-23 |website=justice.gov |publisher=U.S. Department Of Justice}}</ref>
:*Overcharging consumers by $20–30 billion total for Windows licenses in the 1990s by hiding costs in PC bundles.<ref name=":0" />
:*Degrading interoperability of competing software (e.g., Java, Netscape) with Windows. <ref name=":0" />
:*Blocking rivals' distribution channels by signing exclusive deals with PC manufacturers and ISPs. <ref name=":0" />

===Microsoft Corp. v Commission of the European Communities (2004-2007)===
The EU began an investigation of Microsoft in 1998 following a complaint by Sun Microsystems for not disclosing some interfaces to Windows NT. In August 2001, the EU expanded the investigation to look at how streaming media technology has been integrated into Windows.<ref>{{cite news |last=McCullagh |first=Declan |date=2002-07-01 |title=EU looks to wrap up Microsoft probe |url=http://www.news.com/2100-1001_3-941090.html |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://archive.today/20120907171103/http://www.news.com/2100-1001_3-941090.html |archive-date=2012-09-07 |access-date=2025-08-23 |work=CNET}}</ref> Microsoft was found guilty of illegally abusing its dominant position in the operating system market<ref name=":6">{{Cite web |date=2007-09-17 |title=EUR-Lex - 62004TJ0201 - Judgment of the Court of First Instance (Grand Chamber) of 17 September 2007. Microsoft Corp. v Commission of the European Communities. |url=https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:62004TJ0201 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150725161632/https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:62004TJ0201 |archive-date=2015-07-25 |access-date=2025-08-21 |website=EUR-Lex}}</ref> in order to dominate the entertainment market and push out competitors. It did this by bundling Windows Media Player with the Windows operating system, despite them being two distinct products, allowing "that media player automatically to achieve a level of market penetration corresponding to that of the dominant undertaking’s client PC operating system, without having to compete on the merits with competing products".<ref name=":6" />

The case was settled and Microsoft was fined €497 million ($613 million) - the largest fine for abuse of a dominant position at the time{{Citation needed|reason=is this still the case?}} - as well as having to provide a version of its Windows operating system without a bundled media player<ref name=":7">{{Cite web |date=2004-03-25 |title=Microsoft hit by record EU fine |url=http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/03/24/microsoft.eu/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060413082435/http://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/03/24/microsoft.eu/ |archive-date=2006-04-13 |access-date=2025-08-21 |website=CNN}}</ref> (called Windows XP Home Edition N<ref name="WinXPSRedmondMag2">{{cite news |last=Bekker |first=Scot |date=2005-03-28 |title=European Windows Called 'Windows XP Home Edition N' |url=http://www.redmondmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=6625 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20050407081820/http://redmondmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=6625 |archive-date=2005-04-07 |access-date=2025-08-23 |publisher=Redmondmag.com}}</ref><ref name="WinXPSBBC">{{cite news |date=2005-03-28 |title=Microsoft and EU reach agreement |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4388349.stm |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20051222031525/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4388349.stm |archive-date=2005-12-22 |access-date=2025-08-23 |publisher=BBC}}</ref>). However, this ruling could be seen as insufficient to reduce Microsoft's monopolistic control as the company priced it the same as its bundled counterpart and the ruling didn't prevent them from selling Windows XP Home Edition. Consumer interest was low, and major Original Equipment Manufacturers did not pre-install Windows XP N on their computers<ref name="WinXPlite">{{cite news |last=Wearden |first=Graeme |date=2005-06-28 |title=Windows XP-lite 'not value for money' |url=http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39131434,00.htm |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20051102014905/http://management.silicon.com/government/0%2C39024677%2C39131434%2C00.htm |archive-date=2005-11-02 |access-date=2025-08-23 |website=Silicon.com}}</ref>.

See also: [[wikipedia:Microsoft_Corp._v_European_Commission|''Microsoft Corp. v European Commission'' (Wikipedia)]]

===JJH Enterprises Limited (trading as ValueLicensing) v Microsoft Corporation and Others (2021-ongoing)===
Valuelicensing, a UK reseller of software licenses, sued<ref>{{Cite web |date=2022-11-22 |title=JJH Enterprises Limited (trading as ValueLicensing) v Microsoft Corporation and Others |url=https://www.catribunal.org.uk/cases/15705722-t-jjh-enterprises-limited-trading-valuelicensing |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250219014502/https://www.catribunal.org.uk/cases/15705722-t-jjh-enterprises-limited-trading-valuelicensing |archive-date=2025-02-19 |access-date=2025-08-23 |website=Competition Appeal Tribunal}}</ref> Microsoft for "suppressing the availability of preowned perpetual licences" and restricting customers from reselling old licenses in exchange for more favourable terms on newer, subscription-based models<ref>{{Cite news |last=Speed |first=Richard |date=2022-07-08 |title=Judge rejects another Microsoft appeal against surplus license reseller suit |url=https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/08/microsoft_valuelicensing/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220708112410/https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/08/microsoft_valuelicensing/ |archive-date=2022-07-08 |access-date=2025-08-23 |work=The Register}}</ref>, claiming £270 million in damages<ref>{{Cite news |last=Speed |first=Richard |date=2021-04-08 |title=UK reseller sues Microsoft for £270m in damages claiming prohibitive contracts choke off surplus Office licence supplies |url=https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/08/valuelicensing_microsoft_lawsuit/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210408123252/https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/08/valuelicensing_microsoft_lawsuit/ |archive-date=2021-04-08 |access-date=2025-08-23 |work=The Register}}</ref>.

===Ongoing UK lawsuit for overcharging users of non Azure cloud services===
UK lawsuit alleges ''Windows Servers'' users were overcharged when using non ''Azure ''cloud services.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Gerken |first=Tom |date=2024-12-03 |title=Microsoft faces £1bn class action case in UK over software prices |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20wjnxr5ldo |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241203111042/https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20wjnxr5ldo |archive-date=2024-12-03 |access-date=2025-08-21 |website=BBC}}</ref>

Facing EU and UK lawsuits, Microsoft settled with some cloud vendors but retained practices criticized as unfair.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Browne |first=Ryan |date=December 3, 2024 |title=Microsoft faces £1 billion lawsuit in UK for allegedly overcharging rival cloud firms’ customers |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/03/microsoft-overcharging-rival-cloud-firms-customers-uk-lawsuit-says.html |url-status=live |website=cnbc.com}}</ref>

===Antitrust investigation by U.S.===
Making it costly or technically difficult for customers to migrate data from Azure to other platforms.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Godoy |first=Jody |date=November 28, 2024 |title=Microsoft faces wide-ranging US antitrust probe |url=https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-faces-wide-ranging-us-antitrust-probe-2024-11-27/ |website=reuters.com}}</ref>

==Anti-competitive incidents==

===Prompts to stop users from installing competing browsers (2021 - Present)===
Since '''December 2021''', users who install other web browsers, such as ''[[Google Chrome|Chrome]], [[Brave browser|Brave]], or [[Opera web browser|Opera]],'' will face a pop-up on their screen telling users to instead use [[Microsoft Edge|''Edge'']]<ref>{{Cite web |last=Warren |first=Tom |date=2021-12-02 |title=Microsoft’s new Windows prompts try to stop people downloading Chrome |url=https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-windows-edge-download-chrome-prompts |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20211202114904/https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-windows-edge-download-chrome-prompts |archive-date=2021-12-02 |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=The Verge}}</ref>. Some of the messages of these pop-ups include<ref>{{Cite web |last=Sen |first=Sayan |date=2021-12-02 |title=Microsoft says its own Edge browser is more trustworthy than "so 2008" Google Chrome |url=https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-says-its-own-edge-browser-is-more-trustworthy-than-so-2008-google-chrome/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20211202081952/https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-says-its-own-edge-browser-is-more-trustworthy-than-so-2008-google-chrome/ |archive-date=2021-12-02 |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=Neowin}}</ref>:<blockquote>“Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft.”

“That browser is so 2008! Do you know what’s new? Microsoft Edge.”

“‘I hate saving money,’ said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping.”</blockquote>This has been reported to occur on devices running either ''[[Windows|Windows 10]]'' or ''[[Windows|Windows 11]]'', and frequently aims to directly harm the market share of Chrome<ref>{{Cite web |last=Hollister |first=Sean |date=2023-10-25 |title=Microsoft now thirstily injects a poll when you download Google Chrome |url=https://www.theverge.com/23930960/microsoft-edge-google-chrome-poll-why-try-another-browser |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20231025001842/https://www.theverge.com/23930960/microsoft-edge-google-chrome-poll-why-try-another-browser |archive-date=2023-10-25 |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=The Verge}}</ref>, despite both the Edge and Chrome browsers running on the same codebase as ''[[Chromium]]''.

===Bing search attempting to harm competing search engines (2023 - Unknown)===
When doing a web search for an alternative web browser through ''[[Microsoft Bing|Bing]]'', ''[[Microsoft]]''<nowiki/>'s in-house developed search engine that is also used as the default for ''[[Microsoft Edge|Edge]]'', the search engine's AI will attempt to bury the search results for the web browser from the user<ref>{{Cite news |last=Hollister |first=Sean |date=Jun 6, 2023 |title=Microsoft has no shame: Bing spit on my ‘Chrome’ search with a fake AI answer |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/6/23736289/microsoft-bing-chrome-search-fake-ai-chatbot |access-date=Jun 21, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>.

Beyond this, users specifically using both ''[[Microsoft Edge|Edge]]'' and its default search engine will continue to see notices at the top of the search, attempting to keep the user on the browser.{{Citation needed}}

===Disguising itself as another search engine (2025 - Present)===
Currently, when a user does a web search for "[[Google]]", the search engine will disguise itself as a generic search engine that would appear to look like Google in the eyes of the average user.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Warren |first=Tom |date=Jan 6, 2025 |title=Microsoft is using Bing to trick people into thinking they’re on Google |url=https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/6/24337117/microsoft-bing-search-results-google-design-trick |access-date=Jun 21, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>

==Anti-consumer incidents==

===Windows 3.1 AARD code===
[[File:Windows 3.10.068 setup AARD code.png|alt=Windows 3.1 beta setup with a gray square in the middle in red text coloring that says "Non-fatal error detected: error #4D53 (Please contact Windows 3.1 beta support.). Press ENTER to continue"|thumb|Windows 3.1 AARD code]]
Users attempting to install a beta release of Windows 3.1 on a machine running [[wikipedia:DR-DOS|DR DOS]] would receive an error message stating "'''Non-fatal error detected: error #4D53 (Please contact Windows 3.1 beta support)'''". The error code was discovered by Geoff Chappell on April 17 1992.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Chappell |first=Geoff |date=8 May 1999 |title=AARD code |url=https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/index.htm?tx=57 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240112155815/https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/index.htm?tx=57 |archive-date=12 Jan 2024 |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |website=Geoff Chappell, Software Analyst}}</ref> DR DOS was capable of running Windows 3.1 as it is compatible with MS-DOS, but the AARD code in the installer used undocumented structures to detect if the machine was running DR DOS in order to display this message. The rationale was to pressure the user into buying MS-DOS: "What the [user] is supposed to do is feel uncomfortable, and when he has bugs, suspect that the problem is DR-DOS and then go out to buy MS-DOS," wrote Brad Silverberg, the senior vice president of Microsoft at the time, in a 1992 email.<ref>{{Cite news |date=2002-01-02 |title=Microsoft emails focus on DR-DOS threat |url=https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-emails-focus-on-dr-dos-threat/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160310065721/https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-emails-focus-on-dr-dos-threat/ |archive-date=2016-03-10 |access-date=2025-08-30 |work=CNET}}</ref>

===Inactive account deletions===
Microsoft has a [[Inactive account deletion|deletion policy on inactive accounts]] in which accounts that are not used for 2 years or more may be scheduled to be deleted. Any account that has been locked for more than two years will also be considered "inactive" and will be closed. Before the deletion of the inactive account, users may get an email or text message warning that their account is scheduled to be deleted. Such policies could adversely affect those who had good reasons to become inactive for a long time, such as hospitalization, prison incarceration, and being in totalitarian countries which have prolonged internet shutdowns.<ref>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/microsoft-account-activity-policy-7c0a9fa7-0982-b7c6-fd72-df852b63699f</ref>

====Exceptions====

The following are the exceptions to the inactive account deletion policy as provided by Microsoft:

*'''Purchases''': If you have used your Microsoft account to purchase, or to redeem or access a purchase of, a current Microsoft product or service, your Microsoft account will remain active and Microsoft will not close your account due to inactivity. Note, this does not apply to gift cards, certifications or subscription-based purchases or services.

*'''Subscriptions''': Your Microsoft account will continue to remain active for so long as you have an active Microsoft subscription associated with your Microsoft account. Following the expiration or termination of the subscription, you must sign in to your Microsoft account at least once in a two-year period to keep your account active.

*'''Publishing to the Microsoft Store''': If you have used your Microsoft account to publish applications or games (including game DLCs) to the Microsoft Store or to register for a Microsoft Partner Center account, your Microsoft account will remain active and Microsoft will not close your account due to inactivity.

*'''Certifications''': If you earn a certification from Microsoft using your Microsoft account, your Microsoft account will remain active and Microsoft will not close your account due to inactivity.

*'''Account Balance''': Your Microsoft account will continue to remain active for so long as you have an unspent balance in your Microsoft account (e.g. from a Microsoft gift card or a credit from Microsoft). If you live in a jurisdiction where gift cards are considered “unclaimed property,” Microsoft will, pursuant to local law, escheat the unspent balance associated with your Microsoft gift card.

*'''Accounts Payable''': Your Microsoft account will continue to remain active for so long as there is an amount owed to you by Microsoft associated with your Microsoft account (e.g. amounts due to you from Microsoft Payment Central).

*'''Family Accounts''': If you have an inactive Microsoft account that has granted consent for an active Microsoft account belonging to a minor, Microsoft will not close your Microsoft account due to your inactivity. Your inactive Microsoft account will be kept open by Microsoft until the minor’s account (i) is deemed inactive and closed by Microsoft, (ii) is closed by you, or (iii) transitions into a standard Microsoft account when the minor reaches the requisite age of majority in their region.

*'''Legal Requirements or as otherwise provided by Microsoft''': Notwithstanding the foregoing, Microsoft reserves the right to maintain your account status as active, or not to close an inactive account, as required by applicable law or regulation, or as otherwise provided by Microsoft to you.

==Microsoft Edge browser==

===Edge===
''Microsoft Edge''(''Edge'') is a ''[[Chromium]]''-based <ref>{{Cite web |last=Tung |first=Liam |date=2020-06-03 |title=Windows 10: Microsoft begins automatically pushing Chromium Edge to users |url=https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-microsoft-begins-automatically-pushing-chromium-edge-to-users/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200603160238/https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-microsoft-begins-automatically-pushing-chromium-edge-to-users/ |archive-date=2020-06-03 |access-date=2025-08-21 |website=ZDNET}}</ref> web browser that comes preinstalled with Windows 10 and later. It is the successor to ''IE''.

====Resetting primary browser (2017-present)====
Windows has frequently been resetting the default browser to ''Edge'' without consent.{{Citation needed|reason=old link dead}} While there are methods to disable this,<ref>[https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/15zbjar/default_browser_keeps_changing_to_microsoft_edge/ "Default browser keeps changing to Microsoft Edge after every PC restart. Win 11, tried everything"] - reddit.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> it is tedious to achieve, especially for users who are not tech-savvy.

====Inability to delete (2018-present)====
During major updates for ''Windows'', users have been reporting their installations of ''Edge'' being reinstalled to their devices without their consent.<ref>[https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent-microsoft-edge-chromium-installing-automatically-windows-10 "How to prevent new Microsoft Edge from installing automatically on Windows 10"] - windowscentral.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref>

====Importing content from other browsers (2020-?)====
Users have reported on frequent occasions that Edge has imported user data from browsers such as ''Chrome'' and ''Firefox'' without first requesting consent from the user.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Komando |first=Kim |date=2020-07-01 |title=Microsoft caught importing data before you give the OK |url=https://www.komando.com/news/microsoft-edge-caught-importing-data/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241213192319/https://www.komando.com/news/microsoft-edge-caught-importing-data/ |archive-date=2024-12-13 |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=KIMKOMANDO}}</ref>

====Pressuring users into using Edge (2020-?)====
In 2020, users for [[Windows|Windows 10]] faced repeated harassment from Edge to use this browser instead of the user's chosen default browser.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Hollister |first=Sean |date=2020-07-02 |title=Microsoft just sank to a new low by shoving Edge down our throats |url=https://www.theverge.com/21310611/microsoft-edge-browser-forced-update-chromium-editorial |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200702205823/https://www.theverge.com/21310611/microsoft-edge-browser-forced-update-chromium-editorial |archive-date=2020-07-02 |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=The Verge}}</ref> Some examples included the browser opening on startup, the browser being forced into full screen, being incapable of closing the browser until the user acknowledges the pop-up, and the browser pinning itself to the taskbar.{{Citation needed}}

====Removal of ''365'' features to push ''Copilot (2025)''====
Eliminated key search features in ''365'', forcing users to pay $30/month for ''Copilot'' access, sparking backlash from businesses and educators.{{Citation needed}} The FTC and DOJ are reportedly investigating, with Elon Musk alleging antitrust violations in its ''OpenAI'' partnership.{{Citation needed}}

====Increasing the difficulty to switch default browsers (2021 - Present)====
After an update in 2021, computers running ''[[Windows 11]]'' had the systems that handled modifying the web browser defaults.<ref name=":03">{{Cite news |last=Warren |first=Tom |date=Aug 18, 2021 |title=Microsoft is making it harder to switch default browsers in Windows 11 |url=https://www.theverge.com/22630319/microsoft-windows-11-default-browser-changes |access-date=Jun 21, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref> Rather than allow the user to simply switch the default web browser, file types typically accessed via web browsers, such as HTM, HTML, SVG, and more have to be individually modified to have the default opening application changed. This has angered companies maintaining competing web browsers<ref name=":03" /><ref>{{Cite web |last=Lockheimer |first=Hiroshi |date=Aug 18, 2021 |title=Tweet from Hiroshi Lockheimer |url=https://x.com/lockheimer/status/1428047760620621831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1428047760620621831%7Ctwgr%5E9ac6cc57ee0013acb388128e04c3a43f4cd79c94%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F22630319%2Fmicrosoft-windows-11-default-browser-changes |access-date=Jun 21, 2025 |website=X, formerly [[Twitter]]}}</ref> and consumers alike over this change. Even if users modify all of these default settings, other features on the device, such as the taskbar's weather widget, which if opened, will create a new tab specifically in ''[[Microsoft Edge|Edge]]''.<ref name=":03" />Microsoft attempts to justify this by stating:<ref name=":03" /><blockquote>“With Windows 11, we are implementing customer feedback to customize and control defaults at a more granular level, eliminating app categories and elevating all apps to the forefront of the defaults experience,” “As evidenced by this change, we’re constantly listening and learning, and welcome customer feedback that helps shape Windows. Windows 11 will continue to evolve over time; if we learn from user experience that there are ways to make improvements, we will do so.”</blockquote>

==Minecraft==
{{Main|Minecraft account migration}}
Following Microsoft's acquisition of Minecraft, they have started forcing account migration to users who already had a Mojang account to a Microsoft account. The company gave users a grace period for account migration, after which users would have to purchase Minecraft again if the Mojang account was not migrated.<ref>https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/19633473939981-I-Missed-My-Chance-to-Migrate-What-Happens-to-My-Account</ref>

==Office 365 Suite==
{{Main|Microsoft Office 365}}
The Office 365 program has been facing a number of issues in recent years, with allegations of forced upsell and forced implementation of OneDrive.

==Microsoft Windows==
''Main article: [[Microsoft Windows]]''

===Telemetry===
Windows 10 and 11 are configured to send telemetry by default[''[[Consumer Rights Wiki:Verifiability|citation needed]]''], and users may only switch it to a reduced mode, without actually being able to easily disable it[''[[Consumer Rights Wiki:Verifiability|citation needed]]'']. Only certain editions like the Enterprise version have options to switch it off{{Citation needed}}, but a study conducted by the German ministry of information security in 2018 suggests that even this does not stop telemetry data collection completely{{Citation needed}}.

Telemetry covers a wide variety of system information as well as a multitude of user interactions. Microsoft can configure remotely which and how much data and is collected from a particular system[''[[Consumer Rights Wiki:Verifiability|citation needed]]'']. This can go up to a level where all key presses are transmitted in real time{{Citation needed}}. This makes telemetry very intransparent and difficult to monitor since the kind of data being collected could change at any moment without notice.[''[[Consumer Rights Wiki:Verifiability|citation needed]]'']

===Windows 10===
The release of Windows 10 in 2015 marked a decade of taking away user choice through forced updates, resetting user preferences, and [[Forced app download|forced software installation.]]<ref>{{Cite web |last=Hruska |first=Joel |date=30 Jul 2015 |title=Windows 10's default privacy settings and controls leave much to be desired |url=https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/211208-windows-10s-default-privacy-settings-and-controls-leave-much-to-be-desired |website=ExtremeTech}}</ref> Updates would be automatically scheduled when the computer is inactive, <ref>[https://www.crn.com/news/applications-os/300077576/did-microsoft-just-backtrack-on-forced-updates-for-windows-10 "Did Microsoft Just Backtrack On Forced Updates For Windows 10?"] - crn.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> leading to some systems being rendered unusable because of bugged updates that cannot be avoided.<ref>[https://www.tomsguide.com/news/windows-10-update-is-bricking-pcs-uninstall-this-right-now "Windows 10 update is 'breaking' PCs — what to do now"] - tomsguide.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref><ref>[https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-update-bricked-my-bios-thought-to-be/a1f0ebc7-d20d-459f-9956-72a3f98ca432 "Windows update bricked my bios ?? Thought to be impossible ?"] - answers.microsoft.com - accessed 2025-01-29 </ref> Some updates would force changes on preferences set by the user for various applications and settings.<ref>[https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/n1hoz0/windows_please_stop_changing_my_settings_with/ "Windows: PLEASE STOP CHANGING MY SETTINGS WITH UPDATES"] - reddit.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref><ref>[https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-updated-and-reset-all-of-my-settings/529ffb03-edd4-4be2-9412-50e3271fa8fe "Windows 10 updated and reset all of my settings and preferences."] - answers.microsoft.com - 2025-01-29</ref><ref>[https://www.minitool.com/news/windows-settings-are-reset-after-reboot.html "Windows Settings Are Reset After Reboot? Best Fixes Here!"] - minitool.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref>

Additionally, Microsoft Windows installs software, such as Candy Crush, on computers that the user did not ask for.{{Citation needed}} This may also force users to agree to licensing terms, for instance when interacting with forcibly installed software to remove it.{{Citation needed}}

When ''Windows'' ''10'' is installed from the ISO that can be downloaded from Microsoft, the EULA explicitly mentions forced arbitration.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Microsoft Software License Terms |url=https://www.microsoft.com/content/dam/microsoft/usetm/documents/windows/10/oem-pre-installed/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.pdf |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250729194240/https://www.microsoft.com/content/dam/microsoft/usetm/documents/windows/10/oem-pre-installed/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.pdf |archive-date=2025-07-29 |access-date=2025-08-11 |page=6 |quote="If we can’t [informally resolve a dispute], you and we agree to binding individual arbitration before the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”) under the Federal Arbitration Act (“FAA”), and not to sue in court in front of a judge or jury."}}</ref>

===Windows 11===
{{Main|Microsoft Windows 11}}

====TPM 2.0 chip requirements====
{{see also|Trusted computing}}
Microsoft updated their system requirements to include ''Trusted Platform Module 2.0'' (TPM) support as a mandatory requirement for upgrading to ''[[Windows 11]]''. This would require either a TPM-compatible CPU, or a separate TPM-dedicated chip to be installed on the motherboard, however some users were able to circumvent this requirement by editing the registry.<ref>[https://www.starwindsoftware.com/blog/bypass-tpm-and-install-windows-11-on-unsupported-hardware/ "Bypass TPM and Install Windows 11 on Unsupported Hardware"] - starwindsoftware.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> This change resulted in many customers selling or discarding their otherwise functional computers and hardware that did not meet the new system requirements.<ref>[https://securityonline.info/windows-11s-tpm-2-0-free-software-foundation-fights-forced-upgrades-and-e-waste/ "Windows 11’s TPM 2.0: Free Software Foundation Fights Forced Upgrades and E-Waste"] - securityonline.info - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> Microsoft has been frequently reminding users of ''[[Windows|Windows 10]]'' to upgrade their hardware to be compatible with ''[[Windows 11]]'',<ref>[https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-revives-pop-ups-in-windows-10-to-push-windows-11-upgrades "Microsoft Revives Pop-Ups in Windows 10 to Push Windows 11 Upgrades"] - pcmag.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref><ref>[https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-embarrasses-itself-with-windows-10-pop-up-that-hogs-the-desktop-urging-an-upgrade-to-windows-11-then-promptly-crashes "Microsoft embarrasses itself with Windows 10 pop-up that hogs the desktop urging an upgrade to Windows 11 – then promptly crashes"] - techradar.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> which has caused many users frequent agitation.<ref>[https://www.reddit.com/r/microsoft/comments/19dvs9k/any_way_to_disable_the_upgrade_to_windows_11_ads/ "Any way to disable the "upgrade to Windows 11" ads?"] - reddit.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref>

Some advocacy groups, such as the [https://endof10.org End of Windows 10 campaign] , have encouraged users with older PCs to switch to Linux instead.

====Recall====
{{Main|Microsoft Copilot's recall feature}}
In 2024, Microsoft unveiled ''Recall'' for ''Copilot+ PCs'', marketed as a way for users to search through what they have done on their computer by recording their screen. This sparked controversy,<ref>[https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsofts-controversial-recall-feature-for-windows-11-could-already-be-in-legal-hot-water "Microsoft’s controversial Recall feature for Windows 11 could already be in legal hot water"] - techradar.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> especially among security experts<ref>[https://www.techtarget.com/searchenterpriseai/feature/Privacy-and-security-risks-surrounding-Microsoft-Recall "Privacy and security risks surrounding Microsoft Recall"] - techtarget.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> who worried about the security of screenshots,<ref>[https://news.sky.com/story/microsoft-ai-feature-investigated-by-uk-watchdog-over-screenshots-13141171 "Microsoft AI feature investigated by UK watchdog over screenshots"] - news.sky.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> since it could easily document private information like social-security numbers, bank-account information, and passwords, as well as user browsing behavior. A ''Python'' script was developed, called "''TotalRecall''", that collects the screenshots and descriptions of these recordings,<ref>[https://github.com/xaitax/TotalRecall "TotalRecall - a 'privacy nightmare'?"] - github.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> proving the danger of ''Recall''. This feature was delayed after backlash from users.<ref>[https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2024/06/microsoft-recall-delayed-after-privacy-and-security-concerns "Microsoft Recall delayed after privacy and security concerns"] - malwarebytes.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref>

In 2025, Microsoft re-released ''Recall'',<ref>{{Cite news |last=Davenport |first=Corbin |date=Apr 25, 2025 |title=Windows Recall Is Finally Rolling Out After Controversal Reveal |url=https://www.howtogeek.com/windows-recall-is-finally-rolling-out-after-controversal-release/ |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |work=How to Geek}}</ref> with claims that the tool has resolved the security flaws and it coming disabled by default.<ref>{{Cite news |last=LeClair |first=Dave |date=Apr 11, 2025 |title=Microsoft Recall is rolling out following major controversy — what you need to know |url=https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/microsoft-recall-is-coming-for-real-this-time |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |work=Tom's Guide}}</ref> However, despite integrating better security, having this feature enabled continues to pose privacy risks for consumers, as it is only a matter of when a vulnerability is discovered for the problems both consumers and businesses initially had with the tool to resurface,<ref>{{Cite news |last=Lewis |first=Nick |date=May 5, 2025 |title=Turn Off Windows' Recall to Protect Your Privacy |url=https://www.howtogeek.com/how-to-disable-recall/ |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |work=How to Geek}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Piltch |first=Avram |date=2025-08-01 |title=Tested: Microsoft Recall can still capture credit cards and passwords, a treasure trove for crooks |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/01/microsoft_recall_captures_credit_card_info/ |access-date=2025-08-05 |website=The Register}}</ref> especially since it is difficult for users to inspect the screenshots that are taken by the tool.

====Family Safety====
{{Main|Microsoft's anticompetitive practices}}
A feature seen within ''[[Windows 11]]''<nowiki/>'s parental controls is Family Safety. A key problem shown from this feature is that it can questionably ban certain applications from properly running on the device, with no notice to the administrator in charge of the device. In '''June 2025''', this feature banned the string "Chrome",<ref name=":3">{{Cite web |last=u/Witty-Discount-2906 |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=Chrome won’t open (Windows 11) |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/chrome/comments/1l2c552/comment/mvt1w2a/ |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |website=[[Reddit]]}}</ref> which blocked the web browser [[Google Chrome|''Chrome'']] from functioning.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Warren |first=Tom |date=Jun 20, 2025 |title=Microsoft is blocking Google Chrome through its family safety feature |url=https://www.theverge.com/news/690179/microsoft-block-google-chrome-family-safety-feature |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref> Schools in particular use this feature on devices given out for students to complete classwork remotely, and as [[Google Chrome|''Chrome'']] holds the majority market share of web browser usage, (65-70%)<ref>{{Cite web |date=May 1, 2025 |title=Browser Market Share Worldwide |url=https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/ |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |website=Statcounter}}</ref> there has been mass reports of students being unable to complete their classwork strictly due to this flaw.<ref name=":04">{{Cite news |last=Priestley |first=Peter |date=Jun 4, 2025 |title=Microsoft Family Safety Blocking Chrome Browser |url=https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_11-wintop_famsafety/microsoft-family-safety-blocking-chrome-browser/40023ef5-177b-4eed-a857-80ed15afa3a5?rtAction=1749008739548&page=1 |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |work=Microsoft Answers}}</ref>

Currently, Microsoft has neglected to inform users on rolling out a fix in the future,<ref>{{Cite web |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=[User Feedback - Stable] M137 Windows - Increase in feedback about crashing |url=https://issues.chromium.org/issues/422222571 |access-date=Jun 20, 2025 |website=Chromium issues}}</ref> and the only solutions available to users is to either rename the executable on the affected device<ref name=":3" /> or disable "Block inappropriate browsing" inside the ''Family Safety'' settings.<ref name=":04" />

====Removal of WordPad====

Starting with Windows 11, version 24H2, [[wikipedia:WordPad|WordPad]], a word processor included with every version of Windows since [[wikipedia:Windows_95|Windows 95]] was removed and would not be included with future clean installations. Microsoft recommended users to use [[wikipedia:Microsoft_Word|Microsoft Word]] for rich text documents like .doc and .rtf, and [[wikipedia:Windows_Notepad|Windows Notepad]] for plain text documents like .txt. Microsoft Word is included with Microsoft 365 for $69.99 a year, or with Office 2024 with a one-time purchase of $149.99.<ref>{{Cite web |date=Oct 4, 2024 |title=RIP: Windows 11 Update Officially Removes WordPad |url=https://www.pcmag.com/news/rip-windows-11-update-officially-removes-wordpad |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=PC Mag}}</ref>

====Microsoft account increasingly required====
{{See also|Microsoft ends use of "bypassnro.cmd" for Windows 11}}
Increasingly difficult to use a local account rather than a Microsoft account for installation and use of Windows.


[[File:MSInstall.png|thumb|An image of a Windows 10 installation, to illustrate the effort required to make an account unattached to a Microsoft account.]]
Numerous [[dark patterns]] have been implemented in the form of vague language and a confusing user interface, which hides the option to create an account without a Microsoft account under sub-menus and small text. This implementation, first launched under Windows 10 in 2015, continues into the [[Windows 11]] installation process. In March 2025, Microsoft announced that the creation of a Microsoft account would be mandatory when downloading Windows 11, claiming that the decision would tighten security and streamline the user experience.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-03-28 |title=Windows 11 Enforces Mandatory Microsoft Account for Setup: What You Need to Know |url=https://windowsforum.com/threads/windows-11-enforces-mandatory-microsoft-account-for-setup-what-you-need-to-know.358519/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-05 |website=Windows Forum}}</ref> On occasion, Microsoft accounts have been unilaterally disabled by Microsoft. The default experience with a Microsoft account and trusted computing is that if something goes wrong with the computer, you are likely to lose all your data. Experienced users know to backup credentials to minimize this risk, however Microsoft sets most users up for failure.

====Discontinued support for Windows Mixed Reality (WMR)====
{{Main|Windows Mixed Reality (WMR) discontinuation}}
Beginning with [[Windows 11]] version ''24H2'', Microsoft no longer supports Windows Mixed Reality, and all support for the platform will end November 1, 2027. This affects device models from manufacturers including ''[[Samsung]]'', ''[[HP Inc.|HP]]'', ''[[Lenovo]]'', ''[[Acer]]'', ''Dell'', and Microsoft - including their own flagship device, Microsoft ''HoloLens''. Users who wish to continue using these devices must either use Windows 10 or block the ''24H2'' update from being installed.<ref> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/hp-reverb-g2-windows-11-24h2-not-working-need-help/dd90e232-1f28-4655-aafa-685285017d59 </ref>

==Xbox==

===Xbox 360 Defect - The "Red Ring of Death"===
{{Main|Bumpgate}}
In 2005, Microsoft released the ''Xbox 360''. Not long after, consumers began reporting an issue with their consoles of three red flashing lights on the ring around the power button. This was coined by consumers as the "''Red Ring of Death''", and by 2007, ''Xbox''<nowiki/>'s hardware engineers eventually discovered that the reason for it was a defect in the ''Xbox 360''<nowiki/>'s GPU.<ref>{{Cite web |date=December 13, 2021 |title=Power On: The Story of Xbox {{!}} Chapter 5: The Red Ring of Death |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch? |url-status=live |access-date=June 4, 2025 |website=YouTube}}</ref>

For several months of this incident's prevalence in 2006, consumers had to pay to get their consoles fixed by Microsoft if the console was outside of its one year warranty. However, by September 2007, they chose to extend the warranty to three years from the date of original purchase, and they refunded anyone who had previously paid to get this issue fixed<ref>{{Cite web |last=Moore |first=Peter |date=2007 |title=Open Letter from Peter Moore |url=http://xbox.com/en-ca/support/petermooreletter.htm |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20071023004948/http://xbox.com/en-ca/support/petermooreletter.htm |archive-date=23 Oct 2007 |access-date=4 Jun 2025 |website=Xbox}}</ref>. Some current and former employees' comments in the ''Xbox'' documentary, ''Power On: The Story of Xbox'' reveal that Microsoft may have done this to rescue the ''Xbox'' brand.<ref name=":2" /> Nonetheless, this was beneficial to consumers who had made an investment in and enjoyed games from Microsoft's console.

===Xbox===
*'''Online activation'''
:Requiring internet connectivity to set up Xbox consoles or install physical game discs, even for single-player modes.<ref name=":4">{{Cite web |date=April 12, 2021 |title=DRM or Die. How Anti-Consumer Practices Became the New Norm and the Consumers Are to Blame |url=https://cgicoffee.com/blog/2021/04/drm-or-die-anti-consumer-practices |website=}}</ref>
*'''DRM'''
:Xbox Series X/S games demand online verification for disc-based installations, rendering offline play difficult.<ref name=":4" />
*'''Xbox storage monopolization'''
:Xbox Series X/S uses a proprietary [https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/en/content-fragments/products/datasheets/xbox-expansion-card-series-4tb/xbox-expansion-card-series-4tb-DS2081-4-2504US-en_US.pdf Storage Expansion Card] that costs more when compared to industry standard storage.{{Citation needed}}
*'''Encrypted Storage'''
:Xbox Series X/S consoles have a removable solid-state drive (SSD), yet they contain an encrypted partition with a key that is married to the motherboard. This key changes after each system update, making it difficult to replace the drive<ref>{{Cite web |date=Jul 13, 2023 |title=New Xbox SSD interface is horribly anti repair|url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbmzp-rqwfU |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=YouTube}}</ref>. Xbox 360 and Xbox One consoles allowed users to easily replace the hard disk drive (HDD) as needed since the hard drives did not contain such encryption<ref>{{Cite web |date=Nov 28, 2024 |title=Xbox 360 HDD Replacement|url=https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Xbox+360+HDD+Replacement/3430 |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=iFixit}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=May 20, 2024 |title=Xbox One Hard Drive Replacement|url=https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Xbox+One+Hard+Drive+Replacement/36771 |access-date=2025-09-03 |website=iFixit}}</ref>. For the original Xbox, the hard drive was married to the motherboard, but if the console was modified with custom firmware, users could easily replace the drive{{Citation needed}}.
*'''Ending Third-Party Wireless Controller Support'''
:Support for third-party wireless controllers was ended in October 2023. Users were given a two week warning before their devices could no longer be used wirelessly unless the manufacturer paid a licensing fee.

===Removal of games===
In early September 2016, Microsoft shut down ''Xbox Live Indie Games'',<ref>[https://www.polygon.com/2015/9/9/9297959/xbox-live-indie-games-shutting-down "After seven years, Xbox Live Indie Games is closing down for good"] - polygon.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> and in late July 2024, Microsoft shut down its storefront for ''[[Xbox|Xbox 360]]'' games.<ref>[https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2023/08/17/xbox-360-store-will-close-july-2024/ "The Xbox 360 Store Will Close July 2024, But You Can Keep Playing Your Favorite Games"] - news.xbox.com - accessed 2025-01-29</ref> These shutdowns have made it impossible to obtain new copies of, or in some cases, play, hundreds of games within the legacy ''[[Xbox]]'' library.

==Other==
==='''Collaboration with surveillance'''===
Working with the NSA and FBI to bypass encryption (PRISM program) and access user data (Skype, Outlook).<ref name=":1" />

==='''Recurring billing traps'''===
Defaulting users into subscription auto-renewals while making cancellation processes opaque.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-18 |title=Why is MS Software So Predatory? |url=https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/3869973/why-is-ms-software-so-predatory?forum=windows-all&referrer=answers |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-18 |website=learn.microsoft.com}}</ref>{{Citation needed|reason=better source than just support forum}}

==See Also==
[[Microsoft Office 365]], an article on Microsoft's Office 365 subscription service which includes how to avoid the $30 price increase at the start.

Cross-platform limitations and consumer impact of [[Microsoft Authenticator]] multi-factor authentication.

* [[Visual Studio Code]]

==References==
<references />
[[Category:Microsoft]]

Visual Studio Code

2025-11-06T06:35:42Z

Drakeula: /* See also */ remove redirected link

{{Stub}}
{{ProductCargo
|Company=Microsoft
|ReleaseYear=2015
|InProduction=Yes
|ArticleType=Product
|Category=Software
|Website=https://code.visualstudio.com
|Logo=Visual-studio-code.png}}

'''[[wikipedia:Visual Studio Code|Visual Studio Code]]''' is an integrated development environment developed by Microsoft for Windows, Linux, macOS and web browsers.

==Consumer impact summary==
{{Ph-C-CIS}}
====Freedom====
The Source Code is available on GitHub under the MIT License.

However, the binaries published by Microsoft are proprietary under the "Microsoft Software License" and ships with closed-source modifications.

Alternate fully open source forks exists like [https://vscodium.com/ VS Codium].

==Incidents==

===Telemetry enabled by default===
Microsoft's proprietary build sends telemetry data by default<ref>{{Cite web |title=Telemetry |url=https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/configure/telemetry |url-status=live |website=VS Code Documentation}}</ref> which goes under [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacy/privacystatement Microsoft's Privacy Statement]. It has to be disabled manually by setting <code>telemetry.telemetryLevel</code> to <code>off</code> in the user settings.

===Blocking extensions for third-party forks===
In April 2025, Microsoft pushed an update to the "C/C++" extension for Visual Studio Code that introduced functionality to entirely disable the extension under the condition that it was running inside of a third-party fork of the editor<ref>{{Cite news |last=Claburn |first=Thomas |date=2025-04-24 |title=Devs sound alarm after Microsoft subtracts C/C++ extension from VS Code forks |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/24/microsoft_vs_code_subtracts_cc_extension/ |url-status=live |work=The Register}}</ref>, displaying an error that says:

"The C/C++ extension may be used only with Microsoft Visual Studio, Visual Studio for Mac, Visual Studio Code, Azure DevOps, Team Foundation Server, and successor Microsoft products and services to develop and test your applications."<ref>{{Cite web |title=VSCodium issues |url=https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/2300 |website="Microsoft C/C++ Extension appears to no longer support unofficial forks of VS Code"}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Cursor issues |url=https://github.com/cursor/cursor/issues/2976 |website="Has the VSCode C/C++ Extension been blocked?"}}</ref>

==See also==

*[[Microsoft]]

==References==
<references />
[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]

Xbox

2025-11-06T06:27:56Z

Drakeula: part pairing

{{stub}}
{{CompanyCargo
|Founded=2001-11-15
|Industry=Video game
|Logo=xbox.png
|ParentCompany=Microsoft
|Type=Subsidiary
|Website=https://www.xbox.com
|Description=Xbox is a gaming company created in 2001 by Microsoft for a line of gaming consoles.
}}Xbox is a series of gaming consoles, created by Microsoft in 2001. Every version of the Xbox has its own hardware and operating system.

==Consumer-impact summary==
{{Ph-C-CIS}}

==Incidents==
{{Ph-C-Inc}}

This is a list of all consumer-protection incidents this company is involved in. Any incidents not mentioned here can be found in the [[:Category:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} category]].
===Example incident one (''date'')===
{{Main|link to the main article}}
Short summary of the incident (could be the same as the summary preceding the article).
===Example incident two (''date'')===

=== Mandatory part pairing ===
{{Main|Microsoft Xbox Series mandatory part pairing}}

===Advertising===
{{Main|Advertising overload}}

[[File:Xbox One Dashboard.jpg|thumb|The Xbox One dashboard as of 2022]]
Users of [[Xbox]] One/Series<ref>{{Cite web |last=Gach |first=Ethan |date=26 Jul 2023 |title=New Xbox Dashboard Looks Great, Still Has Too Many Ads |url=https://kotaku.com/xbox-series-x-s-dashboard-update-game-pass-ui-1850679127 |url-status=live |access-date=15 Mar 2025 |website=[[Kotaku]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Micheals |first=Steve |date=22 Jan 2024 |title=Xbox Gamers Not Happy About Full-Screen Ads |url=https://gamerant.com/xbox-full-screen-ads/ |url-status=live |access-date=15 Mar 2025 |website=[[GameRant]]}}</ref> have been receiving ads on the home screens of their systems for over a decade.<ref>[https://ar.inspiredpencil.com/pictures-2023/xbox-one-dashboard-ads Archive of dashboard ads for Xbox consoles]</ref> This practice dates back to the 7th console generation, such as on the [[Xbox]] 360.<ref>[https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-ads-finally-were-removed-from-the-xbox-360-dashboard.1549854/ The ads finally were removed from the Xbox 360 dashboard]</ref>

==Products==
{{Ph-C-P}}

==See also==
{{Ph-C-SA}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]

List of kernel-level anti cheats

2025-11-06T06:25:34Z

Drakeula: wikilink, merge suggestion

{{stub}}{{Merge|Might as well put the list in the Kernel level anticheat article (at least until it becomes large).|Kernel level anticheats}}
This is a list of all [[Kernel level anti-cheats|'''kernel level anti-cheats''']].
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Title
!Release year
!Games included
|-
||[[Anti-Cheat Expert]]
|
|
|-
|BattlEye
|
|
|-
|Easy Anti-Cheat
|
|
|-
|[[Riot Vanguard]]
|
|
|}

[[Category:Lists]]

Kernel level anti-cheats

2025-11-06T06:24:16Z

Drakeula: /* References */ list of kla

'''Kernel-level anti-cheat''' (KLAC) is a subset of anti-cheat dedicated towards running above the user level. These types of anti-cheat, such as [[Easy Anti-Cheat|Easy Anticheat]] (EAC), have grown in popularity among large developers for their online multiplayer games.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Alder |first=Dan |date=Mar 6, 2024 |title=Every game with kernel–level anti–cheat software |url=https://levvvel.com/games-with-kernel-level-anti-cheat-software/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=levvvel}}</ref> Alongside this rise in popularity is increasing concern from both consumers regarding their privacy with the use of this software,<ref>{{Cite news |last=Conway |first=Adam |date=Aug 13, 2024 |title=Kernel-level anti-cheats are the next tech disaster waiting to happen |url=https://www.xda-developers.com/kernel-level-anti-cheat-tech-disaster/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |work=XDA}}</ref> and from security professionals who recognize the significant risks of kernel-level software being breached.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Bullas |first=Adam |date=Oct 23, 2024 |title=Kernel-Level Anti-Cheat: Security Risks, Linux Struggles, and the Steam Deck |url=https://adambullas.com/kernel-level-anti-cheat/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |work=AdamBullas.com}}</ref>

==How it works==
Kernel level anti-cheats run at the {{Wplink|Kernel (operating system)|kernel level}}; the deepest and most authoritative level of the computer. In layman's terms, this essentially means the software is capable of tracking every process occurring on a computer, and additionally exhibit control if necessary. Alternatives to kernel level anticheat include user level anticheat which runs as a standard process on the player's machine, and server side anticheat which leaves the user's machine untouched and solely operates on the game's servers.

The arms race between hacking and anticheat software has seen hackers better able to circumvent user level anticheat in recent years, pushing more anticheat developers to demand kernel access from players and more developers to require use of a kernel anticheat to access their games.

==Consumer impact summary==
===Privacy concerns===
Kernel-level anti-cheat has access to every process that runs on a computer, from a simple video running in the background, to processes that may be more private for the user. As this software is designed to run on startup,<ref>{{Cite web |last=Rigney |first=Ryan K. |date=23 Feb 2024 |title=The Gamers Do Not Understand Anti-Cheat |url=https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat |access-date=2025-06-10 |website=Push To Talk}}</ref> this means even if the intended game the software was installed for is not currently running, it retains the capability to track the user's behaviors. This can range from gathering data that could be sold to advertisers to, if the software itself is hijacked by a malicious actor, the harvesting of sensitive personal information.

===Security concerns===
As kernel-level software holds the highest authorization on the hardware of a user,<ref>{{Cite web |last=Litchfield |first=Ted |date=27 Feb 2024 |title=According to experts on kernel level anticheat, two things are abundantly clear: 1) It's not perfect and 2) It's not going anywhere |url=https://www.pcgamer.com/according-to-experts-on-kernel-level-anticheat-two-things-are-abundantly-clear-1-its-not-perfect-and-2-its-not-going-anywhere/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250406200223/https://www.pcgamer.com/according-to-experts-on-kernel-level-anticheat-two-things-are-abundantly-clear-1-its-not-perfect-and-2-its-not-going-anywhere/ |archive-date=2025-04-06 |access-date=2025-06-10 |website=PC Gamer}}</ref> this is favorable towards malicious actors.

If a malicious actor was to discover a security issue in a kernel level anti-cheat significant enough to allow them to hijack the software, they would be able to directly execute code at its level of access, allowing them to bypass security measures put in place by the {{Wplink|operating system}} and {{Wplink|Antivirus software|anti-virus software}}.

This is not a purely hypothetical scenario; it has already taken place in an incident with the popular {{Wplink|Gacha game|gacha}} co-op adventure [[Genshin Impact|''Genshin Impact'']], where the game's anti-cheat '''mhyprot2.sys''<nowiki/>' was hijacked by malicious actors to disable users' anti-virus software, with the intent of distributing {{Wplink|ransomware}}.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Soliven |first=Ryan |last2=Kimura |first2=Hitomi |date=2022-08-24 |title=Ransomware Actor Abuses Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat Driver to Kill Antivirus |url=https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |website=Trend}}</ref>

Another perfect example is Hotta Studios' Tower of Fantasy game. Users have reported that the kernel-level anticheat 'ksophon_x64.sys' has caused [[wikipedia:Blue_screen_of_death|BSOD]] along with the DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION. This incident occurs when the game is uninstalled, launched, closed, or even running before the new publisher Perfect World Games. As of now, since the update by the company, the file doesn't appear to exist in System32/drivers.

===Support issues===
Due to the nature of [[wikipedia:Linux|GNU/Linux]]-based operating systems, many KLACs end up becoming incompatible.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |last=Sam4k |date=Aug 15, 2021 |title=What's The Deal With Anti-Cheat On Linux? |url=https://sam4k.com/whats-the-deal-with-anti-cheat-on-linux/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Sam4k.com}}</ref> Some have been aiming to fix this via compatibility layers under [[wikipedia:Proton_(software)|Proton]] or [[wikipedia:Wine_(software)|WINE]], but due to how popular KLACs communicate with the system to verify integrity on the kernel level, it fails to work with Linux.<ref name=":0" /> As such, games that cannot have their anticheat function fully will entirely refuse to launch,<ref>{{Cite news |last=Tulach |first=Samuel |date=Sep 10, 2024 |title=The issue of anti-cheat on Linux |url=https://tulach.cc/the-issue-of-anti-cheat-on-linux/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |work=Tulach}}</ref> even if it can be used for offline purposes.

In some instances, KLAC can be so aggressive towards Linux, that it refuses to launch even in a [[wikipedia:Virtual_machine|virtual machine]], like with [[Rockstar Games|Rockstar Games']] ''Grand Theft Auto V''<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Airweizen |date=Sep 28, 2024 |title=30 day ban people - did you have running this software? |url=https://steamcommunity.com/app/271590/discussions/0/4839770900414998113/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Steam Forums}}</ref><ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=GamerDude909 |date=Feb 12, 2025 |title=Can You Play GTA Online on Linux? |url=https://nerdburglars.net/question/can-you-play-gta-online-on-linux/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Nerd Burglars}}</ref> running [[BattlEye Anticheat]], which has been known to explicitly block Linux users,<ref>{{Cite web |last=KZ_D |date=May 16, 2022 |title=Anyone out there still playing Battleye protected games in VM in 2022? |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/comments/uqwljl/anyone_out_there_still_playing_battleye_protected/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=[[Reddit]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=GamerNinja99 |date=Mar 2, 2025 |title=Any Fixes for GTA Online's BattlEye on Linux? |url=https://nerdburglars.net/question/any-fixes-for-gta-onlines-battleye-on-linux/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Nerd Burglars}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=AnIcedTeaPlease |date=Jan 21, 2021 |title=What's the progress of Battleye (and other anti-cheat software) on Linux as of 2021? |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/l29yfk/whats_the_progress_of_battleye_and_other/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=[[Reddit]]}}</ref> or [[Epic Games, Inc.|Epic Games]]' Fortnite.<ref>{{Cite web |last=WashingtonMatt |date=Jan 7, 2023 |title=Blocked by BattlEye for [Virtual Machine] |url=https://forums.unraid.net/topic/133384-blocked-by-battleye-for-virtual-machine/ |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Unraid}}</ref>

For the game Diabotical, the developers explicitly ban users running Linux from playing the online-only game,<ref>{{Cite web |date=Mar 6, 2020 |title=Diabotical developer blocks Linux users from playing and says "Just run Windows like the rest of the population." |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/fert89/diabotical_developer_blocks_linux_users_from/ |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200313084233/https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/fert89/diabotical_developer_blocks_linux_users_from/ |archive-date=Mar 13, 2020 |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=[[Reddit]]}}</ref> citing their Linux anticheat being too weak.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Clip from Diabotical developer stream |url=https://streamable.com/7vmt1 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230209160054/https://streamable.com/7vmt1 |archive-date=Feb 9, 2023 |access-date=Aug 5, 2025 |website=Streamable}}</ref>

==Further reading==

*[[Electronic Arts|EA]] has a history of using anti-cheats such as EAC, and recently switched to [[EA moves to in-house kernel-level anti-cheat on PC after purchase|an in-house developed kernel-level anti-cheat]].
*[[Rockstar Games|Rockstar]]'s ''Grand Theft Auto V'' [[GTA 5 moves to kernel-level anti-cheat on PC after purchase|moved to Kernel Level Anti-Cheats]], and in the process, additionally blocked Linux users from being able to play its online components.<ref name=":1" /><ref name=":2" />
*Hoyoverse's [[Genshin Impact|''Genshin Impact'']] has used a kernel-level anti-cheat since launch.
*Riot Games' [[Valorant]] uses an in house kernel-level anticheat called [https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360046160933-What-is-Vanguard Vanguard]
*Kuro Games' Wuthering Waves uses a kernel-level anticheat called [[Anti-Cheat Expert|ACE]] (Anti-Cheat Expert) since launch.
*Hotta Studios' Tower of Fantasy's history of kernel-level anticheat caused BSOD and would stay even after uninstalling the game.
*[[Ubisoft]] uses [[BattlEye Anticheat|BattlEye]] kernel-level anticheat for [https://r6fix.ubi.com/projects/RAINBOW6-SIEGE-LIVE/issues/LIVE-59642 Rainbow Six: Siege] which prevents Linux gamers from launching it even after paying for it.
*Arrowhead Game Studios' Helldivers 2 uses a kernel-level anticheat called [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/19dp2qw/helldivers_2_nprotect_gameguard_anticheat/ nProtect GameGuard].

== Further Reading ==

* [[List of kernel-level anti cheats]]
* [[Kernel level driver]]

==References==
<references />
[[Category:Common terms]]

Talk:Xbox mandatory part pairing

2025-11-06T06:19:13Z

Drakeula: /* Box disappeared */ new section

== Sources ==

FULU Bounty: https://bounties.fulu.org/bounties/xbox-series-x (should be fair game, right?)

Series X, Old news:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSupport/comments/18rmvj7/would_replacing_the_disc_drive_on_an_xbox_series/

https://www.reddit.com/r/xbox/comments/vpfzua/can_you_replace_the_disk_drive_on_a_xbox_series_x/

Parts sold with a paired optical drive?

https://fasttechstore.com/xbox-series-x-parts/p/xbox-series-x-dual-motherboards-and-paired-optical-drive

Optical drive replacement for Series X???

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Xbox+Series+X+Optical+Drive+Replacement/141798

https://ifixit-guide-pdfs.s3.amazonaws.com/pdf/ifixit/guide_141798_en.pdf

Seems to be not a new case study:

Xbox One:

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/218088/programming+new+optical+drive+for+replacement

Xbox One S:

https://www.reddit.com/r/consolerepair/comments/8ounjv/xbox_one_s_matching_motherboard_daughterboard/

https://www.gameslearningsociety.org/can-xbox-one-s-disc-drive-be-replaced/

https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/a5dils/xbox1s_optical_disc_drive_driver_board_must_stay/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/can-i-swap-my-xbox-one-s-blu-ray-drive-in-my-xbox-one-x.257118/

OGX:

https://www.reddit.com/r/originalxbox/comments/8zrd1o/is_the_dvd_drive_locked_to_the_motherboard/ [[User:JamesTDG|JamesTDG]] ([[User talk:JamesTDG|talk]]) 22:40, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

== Box disappeared ==

When I added an initial paragraph, the product box disappeared.
It is still listed in the source, but isn't showing up on screen.
This might be a bug?
I can't do much about it because the stub notice on same line means I can't edit it. [[User:Drakeula|Drakeula]] ([[User talk:Drakeula|talk]]) 06:19, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Xbox mandatory part pairing

2025-11-06T06:08:18Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Talk:Mandatory Xbox Series console part pairing to Talk:Microsoft Xbox Series mandatory part pairing: Company - product - particulars

Google blocking sideloading of unverified Android apps

2025-11-06T06:03:16Z

Drakeula: moved

#REDIRECT [[Google Android restrict app sideloading]]

Talk:Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps

2025-11-06T06:01:41Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Talk:Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps to Talk:Google Android restrict app sideloading: Company - product - particulars

#REDIRECT [[Talk:Google Android restrict app sideloading]]

Talk:Google Android restrict app sideloading

2025-11-06T06:01:41Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Talk:Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps to Talk:Google Android restrict app sideloading: Company - product - particulars

==Ongoing event==

Suggestion to add an "ongoing event" notice since this article reflects an announcement rather than an incident. Otherwise, the article is outside the scope of the wiki since no rights have been violated (yet) [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 12:41, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:Did this before even seeing this, the ‘plans to’ immediately implies this is ongoing. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:01, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, I think I said that but then changed the name afterwards. The previous name implied that it was already being implemented [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 20:55, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps

2025-11-06T06:01:41Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps to Google Android restrict app sideloading: Company - product - particulars

#REDIRECT [[Google Android restrict app sideloading]]

Google Android restrict app sideloading

2025-11-06T06:01:40Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google plans to restrict sideloading of Android apps to Google Android restrict app sideloading: Company - product - particulars

{{OngoingEvent}}
On 25 August 2025, '''[[Google]]''' announced that starting in 2026, the company will block the installation of Android apps from outside the Play Store unless the developer has verified their identity with Google. The policy will first roll out in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand in September 2026 with global enforcement targeted for 2027.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |last=Frey |first=Suzanne |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=A new layer of security for certified Android devices |url=https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-android-security.html |url-status=live |access-date=25 Aug 2025 |website=Android Developers Blog}}</ref><ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Perez |first=Sarah |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=Google will require developer verification for Android apps outside the Play Store |url=https://techcrunch.com/2025/08/25/google-will-require-developer-verification-for-android-apps-outside-the-play-store/ |url-status=live |access-date=25 Aug 2025 |website=TechCrunch}}</ref> This marks a significant change to Android's long-standing support for sideloading apps and has sparked debate among developers, consumers, and digital rights advocates.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Anderson |first=Tim |date=2025-08-26 |title=Google kneecaps indie Android devs, forces them to register |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250829170329/https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading |archive-date=2025-08-29 |access-date=2025-08-26 |website=The Register}}</ref><ref name=":3">{{Cite web |first= |date=26 Aug 2025 |title=Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year |url=https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/810335/google-will-block-sideloading-of-unverified-android-apps-starting-next-year |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=BleepingComputer}}</ref>

==Background==
The open-source Android operating system has historically allowed [[sideloading]], the installation of apps from outside the Google Play Store. Users would need to enable "unknown sources" in their device settings to make this possible. This level of openness distinguished Android OS from Apple's restrictive iOS that does not allow sideloading. Alternative android app stores, such as F-Droid, Amazon's Appstore, and web downloads from sites like APKMirror, thrived under this model.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Thomas |first=Dallas |date=14 Sep 2024 |title=The Wild West days of sideloading on Android are officially over in this week's news |url=https://www.androidpolice.com/weekly-android-news-roundup-september-14-2024/ |url-status=live |access-date=25 Aug 2025 |website=Android Police}}</ref>

Over time, Google introduced restrictions to the open-source operating system citing security concerns. In 2023, Google began requiring Play Store developers to verify their identities in order to reduce "impersonation and malware."<ref name=":0" /> Android versions 13 and 15 further limited what sideloaded apps could do, blocking access to sensitive permissions for apps not installed through Google's channels.<ref name=":4">{{Cite web |last=Rahman |first=Mishaal |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=Google wants to make sideloading Android apps safer by verifying developers' identities |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/android-developer-verification-requirements-3590911/ |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=Android Authority}}</ref> These steps appear to have laid the groundwork for Google's new, broader enforcement.

==Timeline==
On 25 August 2025, Google announced that '''apps can only be installed on certified Android devices if their developers have verified their personal identity with Google'''.<ref name=":0" /> Developers must register through a new Android Developer Console, pay a one-time $25 fee (except for hobbyists or students, who will have a separate free path), and provide identifying details such as legal name, address, and government-issued ID.<ref name=":1" /><ref name=":2" /> Apps must also be registered with their signing keys to prove ownership.<ref name=":2" />

The rollout will proceed in stages:

*'''October 2025:''' Early access program for select developers.
*'''March 2026:''' Verification opens for all developers worldwide.
*'''September 2026:''' Enforcement begins in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand.<ref name=":0" />
*'''2027:''' Targeted global rollout, eventually covering nearly all certified Android devices.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" />

The new system applies to certified Android devices which are phones and tablets that ship with Google Mobile Services (e.g., Pixel, Samsung, Xiaomi). Devices running uncertified AOSP builds or custom ROMs (e.g., GrapheneOS, LineageOS) are not subject to this restriction.<ref name=":2" /> However, uncertified devices often face their own sideloading and app compatibility due to SafetyNet/Play Integrity checks.<ref name=":2" />

==Google's response==
Google framed this new policy as a necessary security measure to reduce malware, fraud, and impersonation. The company stated that malware is "50× more common outside the Play Store" and that anonymity allows bad actors to evade accountability.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":2" /> Suzanne Frey, VP of Product for Android, likened the change to an ID check at the airport: verifying who the developer is without inspecting app content.<ref name=":0" />

Google emphasized that it will not review or police apps distributed outside the Play Store for content, only verify developer identities.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" /> Google's move gained support from some industry and institutions, including the Developers Alliance, Brazil's banking federation FEBRABAN, and Indonesia's Ministry of Communication and Informatics, all of which praised the move as protecting users from fraud.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" />

As backlash mounted, Google took steps to clarify the changes. In late September 2025, an Android Developers Blog Q&A by Android security director Matthew Forsythe reiterated that sideloading is "fundamental to Android" and "absolutely not" going away, stressing the policy's focus on verifying developer identities rather than limiting user choice.<ref name=":7">{{Cite web |date=2025-09-30 |title=Let's talk security: Answering your top questions about Android developer verification |url=https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/lets-talk-security-answering-your-top.html |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-27 |website=Android Developers Blog}}</ref> Google assured developers that common workflows remain unaffected; for example, installing test apps via '''ADB''' (Android's debugging tool) will not require verification.<ref name=":7" /> The company also introduced a free "'''limited distribution'''" developer account as well as a new Android Developer Console for students, teachers, and hobbyists, allowing them to publish apps without paying a fee or providing government ID.<ref name=":7" /><ref name=":8">{{Cite web |last=Rahman |first=Mishaal |date=2025-10-02 |title=We finally know how Android's new app verification rules will actually work |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/how-android-app-verification-works-3603559/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-28 |website=Android Authority}}</ref> However, these accounts come with significant app distribution restrictions, namely a strict cap on the number of devices that can install their apps. To enforce this restriction, any user of a hobbyist app must retrieve a unique device identifier, and the developer must whitelist that device in the Android Developer Console before the app can be installed.<ref name=":8" /> This two-way device registration limits "free tier" apps to a small, known group of people, whereas anyone aiming to reach a broad audience will need to upgrade to a fully verified paid account.<ref name=":8" />

Google also detailed how the verification enforcement will work. A new system service called the '''Android Developer Verifier''' will check each app at installation to confirm its package name and signing certificate are registered with Google.<ref name=":8" /> Common apps from verified developers can be installed offline thanks to a cached on-device list, but an active internet connection will be required to verify less common apps that aren't in the cache.<ref name=":8" /> To accommodate third-party app stores, Google is developing a "'''pre-auth token'''", a cryptographically signed blob that an alternative app store can pass to the system to pre-verify apps without repeated network calls.<ref name=":8" /> Enforcement of these rules will debut in '''Android 16 QPR2''' (the second quarterly update of Android 16, expected in late 2026), and Google will also update Play Protect on older Android versions to implement similar checks via Google Play Services.<ref name=":8" /> Notably, Google is carving out exceptions for enterprise scenarios: apps deployed through enterprise mobile management on managed work devices will install without developer verification (the assumption being that an organization's IT admin is taking responsibility for those apps' safety).<ref name=":8" /> However, truly offline use cases may prove tricky. Google has noted that entities with devices kept entirely off the internet will need to "determine for themselves" how to handle verification requests (i.e. such devices must periodically connect online to update the trusted app list).<ref name=":8" />

==Consumer response==
The announcement sparked backlash in online communities. On [[Reddit]], users accused Google of gradually eroding Android's openness.<ref name=":5">{{Cite web |date=26 Aug 2025 |title=Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1n0f5zt/google_will_block_sideloading_of_unverified/ |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=[[Reddit]]}}</ref> Many argued that Android is becoming indistinguishable from iOS, with some stating that they may switch to operating systems from Apple or Linux since Android's openness was its key advantage.<ref name=":5" /><ref>{{Cite web |last=Schenck |first=Stephen |date=27 Aug 2025 |title=With developer verification, I'm struggling to think of Android as a proper smartphone platform |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/android-developer-registration-3591988/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250828113543/https://www.androidauthority.com/android-developer-registration-3591988/ |archive-date=28 Aug 2025 |access-date=28 Aug 2025 |website=Android Authority}}</ref>

Independent developers raised concerns that hobby projects or sensitive apps (e.g., protest tools, ad-blockers) would be stifled since not all creators are willing to submit government IDs to Google.<ref>{{Cite web |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android |url=https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=Hacker News}}</ref><ref name=":6">{{Cite web |date=26 Aug 2025 |title=Google wants to verify all app developers' identities |url=https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/25235-google-wants-to-verify-all-app-developers-identities |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=GrapheneOS Discussion Forum}}</ref> Open-source communities, including GrapheneOS developers, argued this would discourage FOSS development and give Google exclusive control over Android's ecosystem.<ref name=":6" /><ref>{{Cite web |last=Sarang |first= |date=2025-08-26 |title=Finally Over: Google Blocks Sideloading of Android Apps |url=https://www.androidsage.com/2025/08/26/google-blocks-sideloading-of-android-apps/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250827201805/https://www.androidsage.com/2025/08/26/google-blocks-sideloading-of-android-apps/ |archive-date=2025-08-27 |access-date=2025-08-27 |website=Android Sage}}</ref>

Conversely, some security experts and industry groups welcomed the move, calling it a reasonable compromise that still allows third-party distribution while deterring anonymous malware authors.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":2" /> Critics countered that determined attackers could still exploit stolen IDs, and that this introduces a "choke point," giving Google leverage over all app installs.<ref name=":3" />

Regulators had not formally responded within the first 24 hours, but commentators noted that the change resembles Apple's Developer ID system on macOS and that it may be Google's way of tightening control while remaining compliant with the EU's {{Wplink|Digital Markets Act}}.<ref name=":4" /><ref name=":6" />

By late September 2025, open-source app developers escalated their opposition. The volunteer-run F-Droid app repository warned that Google's plan, if implemented, "will end the F-Droid project and other free/open-source app distribution sources as we know them today."<ref name=":9">{{Cite web |last=Anderson |first=Tim |date=2025-09-29 |title=Google's dev registration plan 'will end the F-Droid project' |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/29/googles_dev_registration_plan_will/ |access-date=2025-10-28 |website=The Register}}</ref> F-Droid cannot comply with a centralized registration regime; its team builds apps from source code and signs them with its own cryptographic keys so it cannot simply have each apps' original author register and hand over a signing identity without fundamentally changing F-Droid's model.<ref name=":10">{{Cite web |last=Prud'hommeaux |first=Marc |date=2025-09-29 |title=F-Droid and Google's Developer Registration Decree |url=https://f-droid.org/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-27 |website=F-Droid}}</ref>

Google offered a limited concession for situations where the same app exists in multiple stores: in rare cases, it will allow duplicate package names if one version has a significantly smaller user base (meaning the developer of the less-installed version might be asked to change their app's identifier).<ref name=":8" /> In practice this would do little to help F-Droid. Many apps on F-Droid share a package name with a more popular Google Play version, so Google's policy would effectively treat the Play developer as the rightful owner and force the F-Droid variant to disappear or rebrand, an outcome that violates F-Droid's core philosophy.<ref name=":8" />

The F-Droid team argued that Google is using security as a pretext to consolidate power over software distribution, especially since even the Play Store has repeatedly hosted malware despite all its checks.<ref name=":9" /><ref name=":10" /> In an official statement, F-Droid appealed to regulators and competition authorities around the world, citing the EU's Digital Markets Act, to scrutinize Google's proposal and protect the ability of alternative app stores and open-source developers to operate freely.<ref name=":10" />

Privacy and free-speech advocates also raised concerns. Requiring every app developer to verify their real-world identity would eliminate anonymity for creators of apps used in sensitive contexts, for example by political dissidents or whistleblowers.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Holwerda |first=Thom |date=2025-10-02 |title=Google details Android developer certification requirement, and it's as bad as we feared |url=https://www.osnews.com/story/143467/google-details-android-developer-certification-requirement-and-its-as-bad-as-we-feared/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251009112107/https://www.osnews.com/story/143467/google-details-android-developer-certification-requirement-and-its-as-bad-as-we-feared/ |archive-date=2025-10-09 |access-date=2025-10-29 |website=osnews}}</ref> Google acknowledged that legitimate reasons for developer anonymity exist and stated it won't publicly disclose developer information, but the company did not promise to withhold that information from governments should they seek it.<ref name=":8" /> Google's stance is that the status quo (allowing anonymous app distribution) poses risks it can no longer accept.<ref name=":8" />

Some former Android team members have also lamented the platform's direction. Jean-Baptiste Quéru, a founding Android engineer who led the Android Open Source Project, remarked that when he worked on Android, goals included keeping the app ecosystem "as open as the web" and letting users run their own builds, but "12 years later, this seems to have all died".<ref>{{Cite web |last=Holwerda |first=Thom |date=2025-09-29 |title=Google's Android developer registration requirement will kill F-Droid |url=https://www.osnews.com/story/143450/googles-android-developer-registration-requirement-will-kill-f-droid/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251009111928/https://www.osnews.com/story/143450/googles-android-developer-registration-requirement-will-kill-f-droid/ |archive-date=2025-10-09 |access-date=2025-10-29 |website=osnews}}</ref>

A website titled https://keepandroidopen.org/ was created to push back against Google's decision. It was endorsed by F-Droid in a blog post as a way for users to take action.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Incidents]]
[[Category:Android]]
[[Category:Google]]

Google Automatically Disables uBlock Origin Adblocker on Google Chrome

2025-11-06T05:59:43Z

Drakeula: target moved

#REDIRECT [[Google Chrome automatically disables uBlock Origin]]

Google automatically disables uBlock Origin on Google Chrome

2025-11-06T05:58:54Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google automatically disables uBlock Origin on Google Chrome to Google Chrome automatically disables uBlock Origin: Company - product - particulars

#REDIRECT [[Google Chrome automatically disables uBlock Origin]]

Google Chrome automatically disables uBlock Origin

2025-11-06T05:58:54Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google automatically disables uBlock Origin on Google Chrome to Google Chrome automatically disables uBlock Origin: Company - product - particulars

{{Incomplete|Issue 1=It needs up to date information of the current state of Manifest V3, and how it currently impact users still that are still using Google Chrome.}}

On March 4, 2025, [https://consumerrights.wiki/Google_Chrome Google Chrome] automatically disabled [https://ublockorigin.com/ uBlock Origin], the most popular content blocker to date<ref>{{Cite web |title=Privacy & Security |url=https://chromewebstore.google.com/category/extensions/make_chrome_yours/privacy |url-status=live |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |website=Chrome Web Store}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=6,320 extensions found in Privacy & Security |url=https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/extensions/category/privacy-security/ |url-status=live |access-date=8 Aug 2025 |website=addons.mozilla.org}}</ref>, for all users as part of shift to the [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/what-is-mv3 Manifest V3] version of Chrome.

==Background==
µBlock, first published on June 23rd, 2014, was forked into uBlock Origin, released on Jun 23, 2018<ref>{{Cite web |title=uBlock Release 0.1.0.2 |url=https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/releases/tag/0.1.0.2 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=GitHub}}</ref>. It is a wide-spectrum content blocker<ref>{{Cite web |title=Blocking mode |url=https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-22 |website=GitHub}}</ref> that browser users may install as an extension to block unwanted content while browsing the web, including advertisements, scripts, pop-ups, malware, crypominers, trackers, remote fonts, and more. It provides many benefits for users including lowered CPU usage, lowered memory usage, lowered network bandwidth usage, improved privacy, and improved security. uBlock Origin empowers users to take control of what is loaded and run in their computer's browser, providing users with a faster, safer, and less obtrusive web browsing experience.

==Introduction of Manifest V3==
{{Placeholder box|Change this section's title to be descriptive of the incident.

Impartial and complete description of the events, including actions taken by the company, and the timeline of the incident coming to the public's attention.}}In 2018, Google announced that it would begin a shift to a new version of Google Chrome extension manifest called Manifest V3, or MV3 for short, "to create stronger security, privacy, and performance guarantees."<ref>{{Cite web |date=1 Oct 2018 |title=Trustworthy Chrome Extensions, by default |url=https://blog.chromium.org/2018/10/trustworthy-chrome-extensions-by-default.html |url-status=live |access-date=23 Mar 2025 |website=Chromium Blog}}</ref> In 2020, Google released a beta version of MV3,<ref>{{Cite web |date=9 Dec 2020 |title=Manifest V3 now available on M88 Beta |url=https://blog.chromium.org/2020/12/manifest-v3-now-available-on-m88-beta.html |url-status=live |access-date=23 Mar 2025 |website=Chromium Blog}}</ref> and by early 2022, Google Chrome disallowed users to release extensions on the Chrome Web Store that were only incompatible with MV3.<ref>{{Cite web |date=9 Oct 2024 |title=Manifest V2 support timeline |url=https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/mv2-deprecation-timeline |url-status=live |access-date=23 Mar 2025 |website=Chrome for Developers}}</ref>

==Google's response==
{{Placeholder box|If applicable, add the proposed solution to the issues by the company.}}
==Consumer response==
{{Placeholder box|Summary and key issues of prevailing sentiment from the consumers and commentators that can be documented via articles, emails to support, reviews and forum posts.}}

There are doubts that MV3 does much for the security, since according to the [https://www.eff.org/ Electronic Frontier Foundation], "when a malicious extension sneaks through the security review process, it is usually interested in simply observing the conversation between your browser and whatever websites you visit"<ref name=":0">{{Cite news |last=Barnett |first=Daly |date=9 December 2021 |title=Chrome Users Beware: Manifest V3 is Deceitful and Threatening |url=https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/chrome-users-beware-manifest-v3-deceitful-and-threatening#MV3quotes |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250727115638/https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/chrome-users-beware-manifest-v3-deceitful-and-threatening#MV3quotes |archive-date=27 Jul 2025 |access-date=16 Aug 2025 |work=Electronic Frontier Foundation}}</ref>. And to quote Firefox’s Add-On Operations Manager: "they can still do that with the current webRequest API that is not blocking".<ref name=":0" />

Users can still browse the web without ads and with reduced tracking by switching to a browser which continues to support Manifest V2 and the full version of uBlock Origin, such as [https://www.getfirefox.com Mozilla Firefox] or the Chromium-based [https://brave.com/ Brave].

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Google]]
[[Category:UBlock Origin]]

Google

2025-11-06T05:55:37Z

Drakeula: /* Controversies */ Nest controversies

{{CompanyCargo
|Founded=1998
|Industry=Technology
|Logo=Google.webp
|ParentCompany=Alphabet Inc.
|Type=Subsidiary
|Website=https://www.google.com/
}}
'''[[wikipedia:Google|Google LLC]]''', founded in 1998 by Larry Page and Sergey Brin, is one of the most influential technology companies in the world.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Largest tech companies by market cap |url=https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-by-market-cap/ |url-status=live |website=companiesmarketcap.com}}</ref> Originally developed as a search engine to organize and index the growing amount of information on the internet, Google has since expanded into a wide range of services and products, becoming a central player in digital advertising, software, hardware, and cloud computing.<ref>{{Cite web |date= |title=Google Products |url=https://about.google/products/ |access-date=10 Mar 2025}}</ref>

Google's search engine remains its most well-known service, but the company has significantly diversified its offerings. Key products include the [[Android]] operating system, the [[Google Chrome]] web browser, [https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Drive Google Drive] for cloud storage, [https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps Google Maps], [[YouTube]], and [[wikipedia:Google_Play|Google Play]].<ref>{{Cite web |title=Helpful products, built with you in mind |url=https://about.google/intl/ALL_us/products/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=[[Google]]}}</ref>{{Citation needed}} Additionally, the company provides digital advertising services through Google Ads, generating the majority of its revenue.<ref>{{Cite web |date=4 Feb 2025 |title=Alphabet Announces Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2024 Results |url=https://abc.xyz/assets/a3/91/6d1950c148fa84c7d699abe05284/2024q4-alphabet-earnings-release.pdf |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025}}</ref> In recent years, Google has also developed hardware products such as the Pixel smartphone and Nest smart home devices.

Google has faced ongoing scrutiny related to data privacy, competition, and its dominant position in the market, such concerns have stretched as far back as 2012.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Cohen |first=Adam |date=5 Mar 2012 |title=Will We Ever Get Strong Internet Privacy Rules? |url=https://ideas.time.com/2012/03/05/will-we-ever-get-strong-internet-privacy-rules/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Time}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=6 Sep 2023 |title=REPORT: Google at 25: From “Don’t Be Evil” To ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |url=https://techoversight.org/2023/09/06/google-at-25/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=The Tech Oversight Project}}</ref> The company has been the subject of various legal and regulatory challenges, particularly concerning antitrust issues, the use of personal data, and its impact on consumer choice.{{Citation needed}} The US government is currently engaged in an antitrust lawsuit against Google, with a decision expected early 2025.<ref>{{Cite web |date=25 Nov 2024 |title=Closing Arguments, November 25: Once, Twice, Three Times a Monopolist |url=https://www.usvgoogleads.com/trial-updates/closing-arguments-november-25-once-twice-three-times-a-monopolist |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=US v Google}}</ref> {{UpdateNeeded|date={{subst:August}} {{subst:2025}}|reason=We need updates on this situation.}}

In December 2024, Google announced to organisations that use its advertising products, that from 16 February 2025, it will no longer prohibit them from employing [[wikipedia:Fingerprint_(computing)|fingerprinting]] techniques.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Almond |first=Stephen |date=19 Dec 2024 |title=Our response to Google’s policy change on fingerprinting |url=https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/news-and-blogs/2024/12/our-response-to-google-s-policy-change-on-fingerprinting/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=ico.}}</ref>

==Anti-consumer incidents==

===Service shutdowns===

====Google Play Music shutdown====
[[wikipedia:Google_Play_Music|Google Play Music]] was a service that allowed users to purchase music, listen via streaming, and download to the local device; alternatively users could pay for a subscription to listen to all music available through streaming. It was publicly launched on the 16th November 2011 and later shutdown in December 2020.<ref>{{Cite web |date=4 Aug 2020 |title=Google Play Music, Music Play Store & Music Manager are going away – everything you need to know |url=https://support.google.com/youtubemusic/thread/62843644/google-play-music-music-play-store-music-manager-are-going-away-%E2%80%93-everything-you-need-to-know?hl=en |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=[[Google]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Amadeo |first=Ron |date=28 Oct 2020 |title=RIP Google Play Music, 2011 – 2020 |url=https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/10/rip-google-play-music-2011-2020/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=ArsTechnica}}</ref> Google Play Music further allowed users to upload their own songs to listen on all their devices, with a limit of up to 50,000 files.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Hoffman |first=Chris |date=11 Jan 2017 |title=How to Upload Your Music Library to Google Play Music |url=https://www.howtogeek.com/288231/how-to-upload-your-music-library-to-google-play-music/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=How-To-Geek}}</ref> Users were able to purchase songs individually or buy whole albums that they could then download and listen to, or stream through the internet.<ref>{{Cite web |date=15 Jan 2020 |title=How To Buy Music From Google Play (Now YouTube Music) |url=https://www.technobezz.com/buy-music-google-play |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Technobezz}}</ref>

In October 2020, Google announced that they would be shutting down Google Play Music, with it being fully shut down by December.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Li |first=Abner |date=3 Dec 2020 |title=Google fully shuts down Play Music around the world |url=https://9to5google.com/2020/12/03/google-play-music-dead/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=9To5Google}}</ref> This went ahead with a warning to their users to begin migrating to [[wikipedia:YouTube_Music|YouTube Music]], and that they would be losing access to their purchased songs. Google recommended users should download their purchased songs before the service would shut down.<ref>{{Cite web |date=4 Aug 2020 |title=YouTube Music will replace Google Play Music by end of 2020 |url=https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/youtube-music-will-replace-google-play-music-end-2020/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=YouTube Official Blog}}</ref>

After the shut down, users lost access to the music they paid for, with no way to download them. Google justified this by transferring all playlists and purchase history to YouTube Music, and only refunding songs that were not directly available,<ref>{{Cite web |date=10 Oct 2023 |title=What happened to my songs on Google Music? |url=https://darwinsdata.com/what-happened-to-my-songs-on-google-music/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Darwin's Data}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Chaney |first=Sarah |date=5 Feb 2022 |title=What Happened to Google Play Music? |url=https://www.makeuseof.com/what-happened-to-google-play-music/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=MUO}}</ref> with no guarantee that the songs will remain available through the new service. Users found that their purchased songs were no longer able to stream at 320kbps on YouTube Music compared to Google Play Music unless they paid for the monthly subscription.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Cutlack |first=Gary |date=23 Dec 2012 |title=Google Music UK: everything you need to know |url=https://www.techradar.com/news/software/google-music-uk-everything-you-need-to-know-1120176 |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=TechRadar}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=L. Hald |first=Nicole |date=24 Mar 2025 |title=How Is YouTube Music Sound Quality in 2025? Is It Any Good? |url=https://www.noteburner.com/youtube-music-tips/youtube-music-audio-quality.html |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=NoteBurner}}</ref> If a user failed to initiate the transfer of their music library or locally download their songs by 24th February 2021, then they lost all access and all data associated with Google Play Music.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Sodhi |first=Tanishka |date=8 Feb 2021 |title=Google Play Music Data Will Be Deleted on February 24: Here’s How to Transfer to YouTube Music |url=https://www.gadgets360.com/how-to/news/google-play-music-data-deleted-february-24-youtube-how-to-transfer-files-playlists-billing-information-2365609 |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Gadgets 360}}</ref> YouTube Music does not provide the option to download songs as MP3s, with local downloads requiring an internet connection every 30 days to continue working offline.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Download music and podcasts to listen to offline |url=https://support.google.com/youtubemusic/answer/6313535?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=[[Google]]}}</ref>

====Google Stadia shutdown====
In January 2023, Google announced the shutdown of its cloud gaming service, Stadia, which was launched in November 2019.<ref>{{Cite web |title=RIP Google Stadia: the latest news on the discontinued cloud gaming service |url=https://www.theverge.com/23380140/google-stadia-ending-shutdown-latest-news-gaming-tech |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=The Verge}}</ref> Stadia required users to purchase games individually, unlike other gaming platforms that offer subscription-based access. Upon the service's closure, Google promised to refund consumers for their purchases, including both games and hardware. The refunds for games and software were issued automatically.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Ravenscraft |first=Erin |date=10 Nov 2022 |title=Stadia Is Dying. Here’s What’s in Your Refund and How to Get It |url=https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-get-your-google-stadia-refund/ |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Wired}}</ref>

Stadia users were effectively renting access to games, as the platform did not allow for traditional ownership or offline play. With the service discontinued, consumers were left without access to the content they had purchased. Stadia users who had bought controllers and other peripherals for the service were also impacted by the shutdown. While Google offered refunds to customers, many Stadia consumers were left with equipment that no longer performs the advertised functions and limited recourse for repurposing or reselling their devices.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Ashworth |first=Mack |date=5 Oct 2022 |title=Stadia Shut Down: How To Use Your Hardware Now Google’s Shutting It Down |url=https://www.gamerevolution.com/guides/852697-stadia-shut-down-how-to-use-controller-chromecast-without-app |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Game Revolution}}</ref>

Google Stadia controllers were limited to Wi-Fi connectivity, however upon shut down they started offering an update to allow them to connect through Bluetooth, the update service website was scheduled to shut down on the 31st December 2025.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Devine |first=Richard |date=17 Jan 2023 |title=Bluetooth support for Google Stadia Controller arrives — Here's how to enable it and play PC games |url=https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/pc-gaming/bluetooth-support-for-google-stadia-controller-arrives-heres-how-to-enable-it-and-play-pc-games |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025 |website=Windows Central}}</ref>

===='''Manifest V2 shutdown'''====
On July 24, 2025, Google permanently disabled all Manifest V2 extensions for Chrome 138 users as well as making Chromium (a browser that many other browsers use as their base) switch to Manifest V3, and disabled the ability to turn them back on.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2021-09-23 |title=Manifest V2 support timeline |url=https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/mv2-deprecation-timeline |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250808191702/https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/mv2-deprecation-timeline |archive-date=2025-08-08 |access-date=2025-08-12}}</ref>

Manifest V3 disabled the <code>webRequestBlocking</code> permission in the <code>webRequest</code> API<ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-03-09 |title=Replace blocking web request listeners {{!}} Chrome Extensions {{!}} Chrome for Developers |url=https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/blocking-web-requests |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250614074559/https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/blocking-web-requests |archive-date=2025-06-14 |access-date=2025-08-12 |website=Chrome for Developers}}</ref>, preventing many ad content blockers from working.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-09-26 |title=Understanding Manifest V3 and the Future of uBlock Origin |url=https://ublockorigin.com/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250812114916/https://ublockorigin.com/ |archive-date=2025-08-12 |access-date=2025-08-12 |website=uBlock Origin - Free, open-source ad content blocker}}</ref> Google cites performance reasons <ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-03-09 |title=Replace blocking web request listeners {{!}} Chrome Extensions {{!}} Chrome for Developers |url=https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/blocking-web-requests |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250614074559/https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/blocking-web-requests |archive-date=2025-06-14 |access-date=2025-08-12 |website=Chrome for Developers |quote="In Manifest V2, blocking web requests could significantly degrade both the performance of extensions and the performance of pages they work with."}}</ref>, but this is dubious; restricting content blockers prevents users from impeding their tracking and surveillance, meaning they can create a larger profit from the data gained. This is likely the ulterior motive, although unproven.

===='''Google Jamboard shutdown'''====
In September 2023, Google revealed plans to retire its Jamboard service, as the product would be transitioned to a view-only format by October 1, 2024, and completely shut down by December 31, 2024. As a result, users had little time to transfer their data before the final transition and no refunds were ever issued to hardware buyers.

The Jamboard product was a $5,000 device that Google pitched as a collaborative tool through its Google Workspace service. After the service no longer existed, however, the device became a brick and the users as well as the buyers were left unsupported and uncompensated.

Situations like this highlight the vulnerability of the consumer market since proprietary products are completely at the hands of developers who can cut services on a whim. Thus, consumer protection must be taken to another level to ensure that no matter what companies get rid of, support and compensatory avenues exist.

===Google Assistant 3rd Party List Support===
On June 20th, 2023, Google disabled 3rd party list support for Google Assistant<ref>{{Cite web |access-date=2025-09-16 |title=Where are my old lists? |url=https://support.google.com/assistant/answer/9415862#zippy=%2Cwhere-are-my-old-lists |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250427212604/https://support.google.com/assistant/answer/9415862#zippy=%2Cwhere-are-my-old-lists |archive-date=2025-04-27}}</ref>. This feature allowed lists through 3rd party services such as AnyList or Todoist to be managed via Google Assistant. The only list provider available through Google Assistant after this change was Google Keep<ref>{{Cite web |last=Mathur |first=Chandraveer |website=Android Police |date=2023-05-31 |title=Google Assistant is killing support for notes and lists integration with third-party apps |url=https://www.androidpolice.com/google-assistant-ending-support-third-party-notes-lists/}}</ref>.

==='''Pixel 4a battery reduction update'''===
{{Main|Pixel 4a Battery Performance Program}}
On January 6, 2025, Google issued a software update to the Pixel 4a that significantly decreased battery capacity on "Impacted Devices". Not all units were affected. It's speculated that the affected units have defective batteries and may pose a safety risk if the update is not applied, but Google never disclosed the reason(s) that the update was deemed necessary. Google removed all factory images for previous versions of the system software from their website, making it difficult to revert the update.

As compensation, Google offered a free battery replacement only in select countries. In other countries, you could choose between a $50 USD payment or $100 USD worth of Google Store credits. However, some users reported difficulty obtaining their compensation.

===Blocking sideloading of unverified Android apps===
{{Main|Google blocking sideloading of unverified Android apps}}
On 25 August 2025, '''[[Google]]''' announced that starting in 2026 it will block the installation of Android apps from outside the Play Store unless the developer has verified their identity with Google. The policy will first roll out in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand in September 2026, with global enforcement targeted for 2027.<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |last=Frey |first=Suzanne |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=A new layer of security for certified Android devices |url=https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-android-security.html |url-status=live |access-date=25 Aug 2025 |website=Android Developers Blog}}</ref><ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Perez |first=Sarah |date=25 Aug 2025 |title=Google will require developer verification for Android apps outside the Play Store |url=https://techcrunch.com/2025/08/25/google-will-require-developer-verification-for-android-apps-outside-the-play-store/ |url-status=live |access-date=25 Aug 2025 |website=TechCrunch}}</ref> This marks a significant change to Android's long-standing support for sideloading apps.

Devices without Google Mobile Services or running custom ROMs are exempt.<ref name=":22">{{Cite web |last=Anderson |first=Tim |date=2025-08-26 |title=Google kneecaps indie Android devs, forces them to register |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250829170329/https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading |archive-date=2025-08-29 |access-date=2025-08-26 |website=The Register}}</ref> Critics argue this restricts user freedom, impacts independent developers, and may enable Google to block apps it disapproves of, such as ad-blockers, raising concerns about privacy and control over personal devices.<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |last=Anderson |first=Tim |date=26 Aug 2025 |title=Google kneecaps indie Android devs, forces them to register |url=https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/android_developer_verification_sideloading |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=The Register}}</ref><ref name=":3">{{Cite web |first= |date=26 Aug 2025 |title=Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year |url=https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/810335/google-will-block-sideloading-of-unverified-android-apps-starting-next-year |url-status=live |access-date=26 Aug 2025 |website=BleepingComputer}}</ref>

===Not providing a solution for Pixel devices bricked due to switching slots, flashing certain ROMs, downgrading the OS, or installing the June 2025 update===
Numerous Google Pixel phones have gotten bricked as a result of different use cases, such as accidentally switched slots, flashing custom ROMs or downgrading the bootloader version of the device after an Anti-Rollback (ARB) increment, accidentally or otherwise<ref>{{Cite web |last=Simons |first=Hadlee |date=2025-08-26 |title=Some Pixels are bricked and Google apparently won't help revive them |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-phones-bricked-3591218/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-11 |website=Android Authority}}</ref>. The device enters an emergency download state called Pixel ROM Recovery, which is a Google modification of Samsung's EUB mode on Exynos chipsets. In this mode, it refuses to enter Android recovery or Fastboot, making it near impossible to restore the operating system on the device. The only way to fix it is to use Pixel ROM Recovery to boot a special, Google-signed recovery bootloader into RAM and flash a working version of Android from there.

This recovery bootloader is just a regular bootloader as it appears in Google factory images, but with a special "USB boot" bit flag set to 1. <ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-11 |title=Pixel devices getting bricked / stuck in Pixel ROM Recovery after flashing AOSP-based builds with Android 15 QPR2 (BP1A.250305.019) |url=https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/402455330#comment19}}</ref>

However, this recovery bootloader is inaccessible to the public, and is not possible to recreate it without Google's private keys. This makes it impossible to repair a device in this state, other than to do a technically challenging repair involving desoldering the UFS chip to repopulate its contents or by replacing the motherboard altogether. Google stores and service centers outside of the US do not offer support for the device if it is out of warranty, even though the issue is completely fixable by software.

Numerous developers have worked on trying to find a solution to this issue, and have succeeded to varying extents. However, devices bricked due to the ARB trigger remain impossible to fix. Google has not provided any recovery images to resolve this issue, despite there being a sizable post on their bug tracker.<ref name=":4">{{Cite web |date=2025-08-10 |title=Pixel recovery bootloaders lack security reasoning for guarding |url=https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/437705274 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-11 |website=Google IssueTracker}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-03-12 |title=Pixel devices getting bricked / stuck in Pixel ROM Recovery after flashing AOSP-based builds with Android 15 QPR2 (BP1A.250305.019) |url=https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/402455330 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-11 |website=Google IssueTracker}}</ref> despite the fact that Google providing the recovery images for the repair will not compromise security, as explained by one of the developers in their report.<ref name=":4" />

==Controversies==

===Account lockouts===
Google has been reported to have randomly locked people out of their accounts due to ostensible security reasons, which are not lifted even if the user had provided the correct credentials and/or even if the user have correctly followed all the verification prompts such as SMS verification. These have caused anguishes for many affected users who are unable to access their contents, emails and services as a result. Furthermore, some had reported that they are forced to undergo SMS verification even when recovery email addresses are already configured to their accounts, thereby likely constituting instances of [[Forced identification|forced verification]] in broad senses.<ref>https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/n5card/mike_rose_no_more_robots_publisher_locked_out_of/</ref><ref>https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/oy8qb8/fyi_google_can_lock_you_out_of_your_account_for/</ref><ref>https://old.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/154yht0/dae_noticed_that_google_had_taken_security/</ref>

===Deletion of inactive accounts===
In May 2023, Google announced that [[Inactive account deletion|deletion of inactive user accounts]] would occur starting in December 2023, citing security reasons, noting that old and unused accounts are more likely to be compromised. Google claimed that "Forgotten or unattended accounts often rely on old or re-used passwords that may have been compromised, have not had two factor authentication set up, and receive fewer security checks by the user," while saying that Google "has no plans to delete [[YouTube]] videos".<ref>{{cite web |last1=Lawler |first1=Richard |title=Google might delete your Gmail account if you haven't logged in for two years |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/16/23725438/google-gmail-deleting-inactive-accounts |website=The Verge |access-date=21 December 2023 |language=en |date=16 May 2023}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Porter |first1=Jon |title=Reminder: Google is about to start purging inactive accounts |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/28/23979178/google-inactive-accounts-deletion-december-2023-psa-reminder |website=The Verge |access-date=21 December 2023 |language=en |date=28 November 2023}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Amadeo |first1=Ron |title=Google's new "inactive account" policy won't delete years of YouTube videos |url=https://arstechnica.com/google/2023/05/googles-new-inactive-account-policy-wont-delete-years-of-youtube-videos/ |website=Ars Technica |access-date=21 December 2023 |language=en-us |date=17 May 2023}}</ref> The decision to delete inactive accounts has sparked some criticism and backlash. The cited security rationale behind such decision was ridiculed and was compared to a hypothetical scenario where a bank should be burned down if it is not secure against robbers.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Novet |first1=Jordan |title=Google's plan to purge inactive accounts isn't sitting well with some users |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/19/google-faces-criticism-of-plan-to-purge-inactive-accounts.html |website=CNBC |access-date=21 December 2023 |language=en |date
=19 August 2023}}</ref> Such policies could adversely affect those who had good reasons to become inactive for a long time, such as hospitalization, prison incarceration, and being in totalitarian countries which have prolonged internet shutdowns. Moreover, the Anonymous hacktivist collective has protested against the decision to delete inactive accounts multiple times, describing them as "harsh" and saying that the decision will "destroy history".<ref>{{cite web |date=18 July 2023 |title=Anonymous puts Taiwan flag, national anthem on 2 UN websites {{!}} Taiwan News {{!}} 2023-07-18 09:56:00 |url=https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4946597 |access-date=21 December 2023 |website=Taiwan News}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |date=18 October 2023 |title='Anonymous' hacks Chinese government site to protest Israel–Hamas war {{!}} Taiwan News {{!}} 2023-10-18 19:03:00 |url=https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/5022840 |access-date=21 December 2023 |website=Taiwan News}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |date=8 December 2023 |title=Anonymous posts Taiwan flag on UN site {{!}} Taiwan News {{!}} 2023-12-08 17:26:00 |url=https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/5055454 |access-date=21 December 2023 |website=Taiwan News}}</ref>

===Google device repair program restrictions===
{{Main|Google asserts the right to seize your phone during a repair}}
Google's Service & Repair Program terms explicitly state that any device containing non-Google-authorized parts "will not be returned" to the customer.

===Target API level requirements for Google Play apps===
Google's policy of requiring apps for Android to target recent API levels to appear in the Play Store<ref>{{Cite web |date=31 Aug 2024 |title=Policy Center |url=https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/11926878?hl=en |access-date=May 9, 2025 |website=Play Console Help}}</ref> creates a continuous cycle of maintenance and redevelopment that can be especially burdensome for smaller developers, indie creators, and consumers.

The requirement for apps to target newer APIs each year serves some legitimate security and feature purposes. However, it also effectively functions as a form of forced obsolescence. Even perfectly functional apps that don't need technical updates must be regularly reworked just to remain visible on the Play Store.

This creates several issues:

*Development resources must be allocated to updating apps rather than creating new features
*Smaller teams and individual developers are placed at a disadvantage attempting to keep up with the constant update cycle
*Legacy apps that are no longer actively maintained disappear, even if they're still useful
*The cost of maintaining apps increases, potentially making some projects financially nonviable
*Losing access to previously purchased apps when upgrading devices
*Users being unable to reinstall older apps that worked perfectly well for their needs
*Facing unexpected costs to replace functionality they've already paid for
*Dealing with the frustration of discovering favorite apps have disappeared

While Google argues this approach improves the Android ecosystem's security and functionality, it does place a significant burden on developers and can lead to the premature "death" of otherwise functional applications.

This creates a troubling disconnect in digital ownership. Consumers reasonably expect that when they purchase an app, they should maintain access to it across their devices over time. Instead, they discover their digital purchases can effectively vanish due to policy decisions beyond their control.

===Ban on third-party tech support ads===
Google prohibits tech support ads on their platform if they are not authorised by the manufacturer.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Graff |first=David |date=31 Aug 2018 |title=Restricting ads in third-party tech support services |url=https://blog.google/products/ads/restricting-ads-third-party-tech-support-services/ |website=Google}}</ref>

==Anti-consumer legal cases==

===Rodriguez v. Google LLC (5/21/21 - Present)===
Google's Web & App Activity setting had the ability to be paused. Reportedly, despite this setting being paused by consumers, Google would continue to collect consumer data regardless of consent.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Rodriguez v. Google LLC |url=https://www.googlewebappactivitylawsuit.com/Home/FAQ#faq1 |url-status=live |access-date=5 Apr 2025}}</ref> This case is currently ongoing and has yet to receive a judgment.<ref>[https://www.googlewebappactivitylawsuit.com/Home/Documents Important Documents]</ref>

===Epic Games, Inc. v. Google Inc. (8/13/20 - 5/31/25)===
Google takes a 30% share of all revenue made through all sales made on the Play Store, which is a comparable figure to other digital storefronts such as the [[Apple App Store]] and [[Steam]].<ref>{{Cite web |last=Marks |first=Tom |date=7 Oct 2019 |title=Report: Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard |url=https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard |url-status=live |website=ign.com}}</ref> On 13th August 2020, [[Epic Games]] CEO Tim Sweeney updated both iOS and Android versions of ''Fortnite'' to redirect users to Epic Games' storefront to purchase in-game currency ("V-Bucks") alongside the respective first-party storefront, with incentives including cheaper prices if buying from Epic Games directly. This violated the Terms of Service of both Apple and Google's storefronts, and ''Fortnite'' was removed from both app stores the same day.

Epic Games would use this motion to file federal lawsuits against both Google and Apple, citing that these practices meant that the companies were engaging in anti-competitive behavior. Google lost in the lawsuit, but attempted to appeal the decision, in which they lost again.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Hollister |first=Sean |date=31 July 2025 |title=Epic just won its Google lawsuit again, and Android may never be the same |url=https://www.theverge.com/news/716856/epic-v-google-win-in-appeals-court |access-date=21 August 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>

==See also==

===Products and Services===

[[List of Google products]]
===Controversies===

*[[Advertising overload]]
*[[Google follows Samsung, asserts the right to steal your phone during a repair]]
*[[Google Nest Protect forced to use Google app]]
*[[Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled]]
*[[Google Pixel Watches do not come with repair options]]

==References==
<references />
[[Category:Google]]

Google Nest Protect forced to use Google app

2025-11-06T05:52:34Z

Drakeula: links

{{Incomplete|contains only one source}}
{{IncidentCargo
|Company=Google, Nest
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=Nest Protect
|Product=Nest Protect Smoke + Carbon Monoxide Alarm (all generations)
|ArticleType=Service
|Type=Forced Migration
|Description=Google forcing Nest Protect users to migrate from Nest app to Google Home app with expanded data collection terms to maintain functionality.
}}

[[Google]] has announced significant changes to its [[Google Nest]] Protect smoke and carbon monoxide detector product line<ref name="google-blog">"Upcoming changes to our device portfolio featuring Nest Protect and Nest x." Google Nest Community, www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/Upcoming-changes-to-our-device-portfolio-featuring-Nest-Protect-and-Nest-x/ba-p/708064.</ref>. The company is discontinuing the Nest Protect product line and requiring existing users to migrate to the Google Home app to maintain device functionality.

==Service Changes==
According to Google's announcement, Nest Protect was previously "only available via the Nest app" but has now been moved to the Google Home app<ref name="google-blog" />. Google states: "Earlier this year, the Google Home app launched a new smoke & CO experience into Public Preview, which brings the Nest Protect to the Google Home app for the first time alongside your favorite devices from thousands of brands"<ref name="google-blog" />.

===Data Collection Implications===
The migration from the Nest app to the Google Home app subjects users to Google's broader terms of service and data collection policies. Users who purchased Nest Protect devices under Nest's original privacy commitments must now accept Google's comprehensive data collection practices to maintain their smoke detector's smart features.

===Product Discontinuation===
Google has confirmed that Nest Protect will no longer be available for purchase<ref name="google-blog" />. The company is directing new customers to alternatives, specifically mentioning that "The First Alert Smart Smoke & Carbon Monoxide Alarm will also work via the Google Home app"<ref name="google-blog" />.

===Google's response===
Google positions this change as bringing Nest Protect functionality "alongside your favorite devices from thousands of brands" in the Google Home app<ref name="google-blog" />. The company has not addressed concerns about the expanded data collection requirements or provided options for users who prefer to maintain their devices under the original Nest app terms.

==Lawsuit==
''No lawsuits have been filed at this time.''

==Consumer response==
Consumers who purchased Nest Protect devices may be concerned about:
*Being required to accept expanded data collection terms to maintain device functionality
*The discontinuation of a safety product line without long-term support guarantees
*Loss of the dedicated Nest app experience they originally purchased
*Potential future loss of support similar to older Nest thermostat products

Affected users may wish to:
*Review Google's terms of service and privacy policies before migrating
*Document the original purchase terms and privacy commitments
*Consider filing complaints with consumer protection agencies regarding the forced migration
*Research alternative smoke detectors that don't require cloud connectivity

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Google Nest]]

Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled

2025-11-06T05:50:26Z

Drakeula: links

{{IncidentCargo
|Company=Google, Nest
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=Nest Learning Thermostat
|Product=1st generation 2011, 2nd generation 2012, 2nd generation Europe version 2014
|ArticleType=Service
|Type=Abandonware
|Description=Google ending support for 1st/2nd gen Nest thermostats October 2025, removing app control and safety features despite working hardware.
}}

[[Google]] has announced the discontinuation of cloud-based support for first and second-generation [[Google Nest]] Learning Thermostats, affecting devices purchased between 2011-2014. While the thermostats will continue basic operation, all smart features and remote capabilities will be permanently disabled.

==Background==
Nest Labs launched the Nest Learning Thermostat in 2011, introducing smart thermostats to the mainstream market. The company was acquired by Google in 2014 for $3.2 billion. First and second-generation Nest thermostats were marketed as premium one-time purchases with cloud-based functionality as core features, including smartphone control, voice assistant integration, and home automation capabilities.

==The discontinuation announcement==
On April 25, 2025, Google officially announced that support would end for the following devices on October 25, 2025:<ref name="official">{{Cite web |title=Support changes to our earliest generation Nest Learning Thermostats |url=https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/Support-changes-to-our-earliest-generation-Nest-Learning-Thermostats/ba-p/713068 |date=2025-04-25 |access-date=2025-07-13 |website=Google Nest Community |archive-url=https://archive.is/wip/NxA1x |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref><ref name="google-announcement">"Upcoming End of Support for Nest Learning Thermostats (1st and 2nd Gen) - Google Nest Help." Google.com, 2019, support.google.com/googlenest/answer/16233096?hl=en.</ref>

*Nest Learning Thermostat (1st generation, 2011)
*Nest Learning Thermostat (2nd generation, 2012)
*Nest Learning Thermostat (2nd generation, Europe version, 2014)

===Features being discontinued===
After October 25, 2025, affected devices will lose:<ref name="official" /><ref name="google-announcement" />

*Remote control via Nest and Google Home apps
*Google Assistant and third-party voice assistant integration
*Home/Away Assist functionality
*Push notifications
*Software and security updates
*All cloud-based features and connected services

===Safety feature impact===
The discontinuation affects the Emergency Shutoff feature, which automatically shuts off heating systems when Nest Protect smoke detectors sense carbon monoxide.<ref name="emergency-shutoff">"What you need for Emergency Shutoff to work - Google Nest Help." Google.com, support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9245889?hl=en-IN.</ref> Google has confirmed that "Nest Protects will also disconnect from the thermostat and Emergency Shut-off will no longer run."<ref name="google-announcement" />

===Remaining functionality===
Google states that basic thermostat functions accessible directly on the device will continue to work, including:<ref name="google-announcement" />

*Pre-set temperature schedules
*Manual temperature adjustments
*Mode switching (heat/cool)
*Auto-Schedule settings management

==Harm to consumers==
The discontinuation removes core features that were primary selling points when consumers purchased these devices. Users who built smart home systems around these thermostats face the loss of functionality they paid for, with no option for local control or open-source alternatives. The removal of the carbon monoxide safety shutoff feature presents particular concern for consumer safety.

==Company response and compensation==
Google cited the age of the hardware as the primary reason, stating it had become "increasingly challenging to continue to update these products."<ref name="official" /> The company offered limited-time discounts to affected customers:

*United States: $130 off 4th generation Nest Learning Thermostat
*Canada: $160 off 4th generation model
*Europe: 50% off Tado Smart Thermostat X Starter Kit<ref name="official" />

No options were provided for continuing use through open-source integrations, local control, or third-party services.

==Public response==
The announcement generated significant criticism from consumers and technology commentators. Carl T. Bergstrom summarized the sentiment: "We're Google, and we're going to brick your perfectly functional thermostat after buying the company that made it."<ref>{{Cite web |title=Carl T. Bergstrom on Bluesky |url=https://bsky.app/profile/carlbergstrom.com/post/3ltkvrz26tc2u |date=2025-07-09 |access-date=2025-07-13 |archive-url=https://archive.is/wip/QkXeH |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref><ref name="chrome">{{Cite web |title=Google ends support for Nest Learning Thermostat Gen 1 & 2 |url=https://chromeunboxed.com/your-old-nest-thermostat-is-going-to-lose-app-control-later-this-year/ |date=2025-04-29 |access-date=2025-07-13 |website=Chrome Unboxed |archive-url=https://archive.ph/wip/TyMq4 |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref>

==Current status==
As of October 2025, the discontinuation remains scheduled. Affected consumers are advised to:

*Document current device functionality and integrations
*Ensure alternative carbon monoxide safety measures are in place before the cutoff date
*Save all communications from Google/Nest regarding the discontinuation
*Consider filing complaints with consumer protection agencies if appropriate

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Google]]
[[Category:Google Nest]]
[[Category:Smart home device obsolescence]]
[[Category:Cloud service dependency]]
[[Category:Remote deactivation]]
[[Category:Forced obsolescence]]
[[Category:Ownership revocation]]

Google disables smart features of old Nest thermostats

2025-11-06T05:47:53Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google disables smart features of old Nest thermostats to Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled: Company - product - particulars

#REDIRECT [[Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled]]

Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled

2025-11-06T05:47:53Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Google disables smart features of old Nest thermostats to Google Nest thermostat smart features disabled: Company - product - particulars

{{IncidentCargo
|Company=Google, Nest
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=Nest Learning Thermostat
|Product=1st generation 2011, 2nd generation 2012, 2nd generation Europe version 2014
|ArticleType=Service
|Type=Abandonware
|Description=Google ending support for 1st/2nd gen Nest thermostats October 2025, removing app control and safety features despite working hardware.
}}

Google has announced the discontinuation of cloud-based support for first and second-generation Nest Learning Thermostats, affecting devices purchased between 2011-2014. While the thermostats will continue basic operation, all smart features and remote capabilities will be permanently disabled.

==Background==
Nest Labs launched the Nest Learning Thermostat in 2011, introducing smart thermostats to the mainstream market. The company was acquired by Google in 2014 for $3.2 billion. First and second-generation Nest thermostats were marketed as premium one-time purchases with cloud-based functionality as core features, including smartphone control, voice assistant integration, and home automation capabilities.

==The discontinuation announcement==
On April 25, 2025, Google officially announced that support would end for the following devices on October 25, 2025:<ref name="official">{{Cite web |title=Support changes to our earliest generation Nest Learning Thermostats |url=https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/Support-changes-to-our-earliest-generation-Nest-Learning-Thermostats/ba-p/713068 |date=2025-04-25 |access-date=2025-07-13 |website=Google Nest Community |archive-url=https://archive.is/wip/NxA1x |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref><ref name="google-announcement">"Upcoming End of Support for Nest Learning Thermostats (1st and 2nd Gen) - Google Nest Help." Google.com, 2019, support.google.com/googlenest/answer/16233096?hl=en.</ref>

*Nest Learning Thermostat (1st generation, 2011)
*Nest Learning Thermostat (2nd generation, 2012)
*Nest Learning Thermostat (2nd generation, Europe version, 2014)

===Features being discontinued===
After October 25, 2025, affected devices will lose:<ref name="official" /><ref name="google-announcement" />

*Remote control via Nest and Google Home apps
*Google Assistant and third-party voice assistant integration
*Home/Away Assist functionality
*Push notifications
*Software and security updates
*All cloud-based features and connected services

===Safety feature impact===
The discontinuation affects the Emergency Shutoff feature, which automatically shuts off heating systems when Nest Protect smoke detectors sense carbon monoxide.<ref name="emergency-shutoff">"What you need for Emergency Shutoff to work - Google Nest Help." Google.com, support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9245889?hl=en-IN.</ref> Google has confirmed that "Nest Protects will also disconnect from the thermostat and Emergency Shut-off will no longer run."<ref name="google-announcement" />

===Remaining functionality===
Google states that basic thermostat functions accessible directly on the device will continue to work, including:<ref name="google-announcement" />

*Pre-set temperature schedules
*Manual temperature adjustments
*Mode switching (heat/cool)
*Auto-Schedule settings management

==Harm to consumers==
The discontinuation removes core features that were primary selling points when consumers purchased these devices. Users who built smart home systems around these thermostats face the loss of functionality they paid for, with no option for local control or open-source alternatives. The removal of the carbon monoxide safety shutoff feature presents particular concern for consumer safety.

==Company response and compensation==
Google cited the age of the hardware as the primary reason, stating it had become "increasingly challenging to continue to update these products."<ref name="official" /> The company offered limited-time discounts to affected customers:

*United States: $130 off 4th generation Nest Learning Thermostat
*Canada: $160 off 4th generation model
*Europe: 50% off Tado Smart Thermostat X Starter Kit<ref name="official" />

No options were provided for continuing use through open-source integrations, local control, or third-party services.

==Public response==
The announcement generated significant criticism from consumers and technology commentators. Carl T. Bergstrom summarized the sentiment: "We're Google, and we're going to brick your perfectly functional thermostat after buying the company that made it."<ref>{{Cite web |title=Carl T. Bergstrom on Bluesky |url=https://bsky.app/profile/carlbergstrom.com/post/3ltkvrz26tc2u |date=2025-07-09 |access-date=2025-07-13 |archive-url=https://archive.is/wip/QkXeH |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref><ref name="chrome">{{Cite web |title=Google ends support for Nest Learning Thermostat Gen 1 & 2 |url=https://chromeunboxed.com/your-old-nest-thermostat-is-going-to-lose-app-control-later-this-year/ |date=2025-04-29 |access-date=2025-07-13 |website=Chrome Unboxed |archive-url=https://archive.ph/wip/TyMq4 |archive-date=2025-07-13}}</ref>

==Current status==
As of October 2025, the discontinuation remains scheduled. Affected consumers are advised to:

*Document current device functionality and integrations
*Ensure alternative carbon monoxide safety measures are in place before the cutoff date
*Save all communications from Google/Nest regarding the discontinuation
*Consider filing complaints with consumer protection agencies if appropriate

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Google]]
[[Category:Google Nest]]
[[Category:Smart home device obsolescence]]
[[Category:Cloud service dependency]]
[[Category:Remote deactivation]]
[[Category:Forced obsolescence]]
[[Category:Ownership revocation]]

Anthropic

2025-11-06T05:44:21Z

Drakeula: /* See also */ links

{{StubNotice}}{{CompanyCargo
| Founded = 2021
| Industry = Artificial Intelligence
| Description = American AI startup founded in 2021 commonly known for their family of LLMs named Claude.
| Website = https://anthropic.com
| Logo = Anthropic logo.svg.png
|Type=Private}}Anthropic PBC is a private for-profit American [[artificial intelligence]] (AI) startup founded in 2021. Anthropic is mainly known for their family of large language models (LLMs) known as [[Claude]].

==Consumer impact summary==
{{Ph-C-CIS}}
This section is incomplete and is a placeholder.

==Incidents==
{{Ph-C-Inc}}

==Products==
{{Ph-C-P}}

==See also==
*[[OpenAI]]
*[[CursorAI "unlimited" plan rug pull]]

==References==
<references />

CursorAI adds rate limits to unlimited plans

2025-11-06T05:41:46Z

Drakeula: anthropic

Cursor AI silently changed their ''"unlimited"'' Pro plan to severely rate-limited without notice, locking users out after 3-7 requests & forcing them to upgrade to regain functionality.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Developer Reports Cursor AI Plan Change and Lockouts |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

==Background==
Cursor AI, a developer-focused AI code assistant, marketed its $20/month Pro plan with "Unlimited Agent Requests,"<ref>{{Cite web |title=Cursor Pricing Page Archive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250222054643/https://www.cursor.com/en/pricing |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref> targeting professional developers who depend on advanced models like [[Anthropic]] Claude 4 Sonnet for coding workflows. The service was sold as a premium development tool that provides reliable access to frontier AI models for professional software development.

After introducing an Unlimited Pro plan, a hidden Pro+ upgrade, and higher-priced Ultra Plan in mid-June 2025<ref>{{Cite web |title=Clarifying June 16 Pro Changes |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/clarifying-june-16-pro-changes/111740 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>, shortly after Cursor quietly changed the Pro plan description from ''"Unlimited Agent Requests" to "Unlimited Agent Requests *Usage Limits Apply for some models"'' and again early July to ''"Extended limits on agent"'' without clarifying actual limits or notifying existing customers. The company implemented a system based on "$20+ of model inference" allowance but provided no tools for users to track consumption against this limit.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Cursor Community Discussion: No Usage Tracking |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/18 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
[[File:Initial Unlimited Pricing.png|thumb|200x200px]]

==Service Degradation and Consumer Exploitation==
===Silent Plan Changes===
Days after June 16, 2025, launch, Cursor quietly walked back ''"Unlimited Agent Requests"''

*Added on asterisks to the unlimited messaging ''"Unlimited Agent Requests *Usage Limits Apply for some models"''

On June 16, 2025, Cursor AI pushed through large changes to their Pro Plan terms without properly notifying customers:<ref>{{Cite web |title=Clarifying June 16 Pro Changes |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/clarifying-june-16-pro-changes/111740 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

*Changed "Unlimited Agent Requests" to "Extended limits on agent" on pricing page
*Implemented usage limits based on vague ''"$20+ of model inference"'' allowance
*Introduced harsh rate limiting with reset periods described only as ''"5-24 hours"''<ref>{{Cite web |title=Cursor Documentation on Rate Limits |url=https://docs.cursor.com/rate-limits |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>[[File:Updated Unlimited Pricing.png|thumb|200x200px]][[File:July 03, 2025, Updated Pricing.png|thumb|223x223px]]
*Removed transparency features that would allow users to track usage against limits<ref>{{Cite web |title=User Complaints About Lack of Usage Dashboard |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/20 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

===User Impact===
Users began experiencing unexpected rate limiting with minimal usage:

*Users reported being rate limited after few requests to Claude 4 Sonnet
*Rate limits lasted 5-24 hours despite documentation claiming ''"every few hours"'' reset periods<ref>{{Cite web |title=User Report: 26 Hour Rate Limit |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/45 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*No advance warning when approaching limits or specific indication of when the limits would reset
*Dashboard showed usage events but no dollar consumption tracking against monthly allowance
*Sudden transitions from ''"included in Pro"'' usage to expensive pay-as-you-go billing without warning.

===Suppression of Customer Complaints===
The company suppressed customer complaints:

*AI moderation system repeatedly hid customer complaint threads from public view<ref>{{Cite web |title=Reports of Forum Shadowbans |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/48 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Professional, well-documented complaints became unsearchable on the forum<ref>{{Cite web |title=Forum Thread Hidden By Moderation |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/48 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Staff dismissed documented evidence as ''"conspiracy theories"''<ref>{{Cite web |title=Dismissal of Complaints |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/60 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Multiple threads documenting the issues were shadow-banned or made invisible to new users

==Cursor's response==
===Initial denial & suppression===
Cursor AI's initial responses were inadequate & dismissive:

*Customer support provided canned responses that ignored specific questions about timing & usage numbers<ref>{{Cite web |title=Template Support Responses |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/62 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Staff members dismissed user concerns as ''"conspiracy theories"'' despite documented evidence<ref>{{Cite web |title=Staff Responses to Rate Limit Complaints |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/43 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*AI moderation system continued hiding customer complaint threads<ref>{{Cite web |title=Ongoing Forum Suppression |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/37 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

===Official Damage Control Response===
On July 5, 2025, facing overwhelming cross-platform pressure, Cursor AI published a blog post acknowledging the issues:

*Admitted that ''"unlimited usage"'' was misleading and only applied to inferior Auto mode, not direct model access<ref>{{Cite web |title=Cursor Clarifies Misleading Unlimited Claims |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/clarifying-june-16-pro-changes/111740 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Clarified that Pro plan includes approximately 225 Sonnet 4 requests per month (down from previously advertised unlimited)
*Offered full refunds for unexpected charges between June 16 and July 4, 2025
*Updated documentation to provide more specific limit information, though still vague on reset timing

===Continued Problems===
Even after the official response, fundamental issues remained unresolved:

*Users continued experiencing rate limiting after just 3 prompts despite documentation claiming 225 requests/month
*Reset timing described vaguely as ''"5-24 hours"'' with no guarantees (''"best-effort basis"'')
*No real-time usage tracking implementation to help users manage consumption
*[[File:Forum screenshot.jpg|thumb|Forum user doing math to demonstrate how cursor is 29x worse than claude]]Value proposition remained significantly worse than competitors (29:1 ratio disadvantage)<ref>{{Cite web |title=Comparison with Competitors |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/64 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

==Consumer response==
===Cross-Platform Documentation===
The consumer backlash spread to multiple platforms:

*A detailed 51-page forum thread documented user experiences with screenshots, usage data, and technical analysis<ref>{{Cite web |title=Pro Plan Rate Limit Transparency Issues - Cursor Forum |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*[[File:X post on cursorai.jpg|thumb|twitter post from disgruntled customer of cursorai]]Hundreds of complaints across Twitter/X from developers worldwide experiencing identical issues<ref>{{Cite web |title=Developer Complaints on Twitter |url=https://x.com/0ni_x4/status/1940885976127283342 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Community-maintained archives created due to forum censorship and thread hiding<ref>{{Cite web |title=Archive of Hidden Threads |url=https://archive.is/QDnSS |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Reddit discussions confirming the same problems across the user base<ref>{{Cite web |title=Reddit User Reports on Cursor Rate Limits |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/cursor/comments/1lqvl21/cursor_12_and_claude_4_sonnet_rate_limit_is_this/ |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

===User Actions===
Affected consumers took direct action:

*Mass cancellations of annual subscriptions with refund requests<ref>{{Cite web |title=User Reports Cancellations |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/83 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Migration to transparent alternatives like Claude Code Pro '''(which offered 29x better value)'''<ref>{{Cite web |title=Discussion on Switching to Competitors |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/85 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Organized documentation efforts to preserve evidence of service changes<ref>{{Cite web |title=User Documentation Efforts |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/87 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Cross-platform pressure campaign that ultimately forced the company's official response<ref>{{Cite web |title=Pressure Leading to Official Response |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/clarifying-june-16-pro-changes/111740 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Users sharing workarounds like reverting to "legacy pricing" where available<ref>{{Cite web |title=Users Reverting to Legacy Pricing |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/90 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>

===Consumer Impact===
CursorAI's actions seriously disrupted pro developer's workflows:

*Developers experienced sudden 26-hour lockouts during critical project work
*Users forced to switch to inferior Auto mode or stop their dev work completely
*Anxiety around usage due to unpredictable enforcement & billing<ref>{{Cite web |title=User Anxiety Over Enforcement |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/95 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Loss of confidence in service reliability for professional development work
*Financial pressure to upgrade to $60+ plans to regain previously advertised functionality

===Community Sentiment===
Documented consumer sentiment included:

*Accusations of '''"rug-pull"''' & bait-and-switch tactic.
*Comparisons to "snake oil salesmen" and predatory business practices<ref>{{Cite web |title=Snake Oil Comparisons |url=https://forum.cursor.com/t/pro-plan-rate-limit-transparency-issues-need-specific-usage-details/113028/83 |access-date=2025-07-05}}</ref>
*Calls for transparency in billing and usage tracking
*Demands for honest marketing that doesn't rely on technical loopholes
*Recognition that the incident represented broader anti-consumer trends in AI services

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Cursor]]
[[Category:Artificial intelligence]]

Windows 10 End of Support

2025-11-05T09:29:57Z

Drakeula: Changed redirect target from Guide - Windows 10 End of Support to Guide - Windows 10 end of support

#REDIRECT [[Guide - Windows 10 end of support]]

Guide - Windows 10 End of Support

2025-11-05T09:29:24Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Guide - Windows 10 End of Support to Guide - Windows 10 end of support: Misspelled title: Not in sentence case

#REDIRECT [[Guide - Windows 10 end of support]]

Guide - Windows 10 end of support

2025-11-05T09:29:24Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Guide - Windows 10 End of Support to Guide - Windows 10 end of support: Misspelled title: Not in sentence case

{{GuideNotice}}
Microsoft officially ended the support for consumer editions of Windows 10 on the 14th of October, 2025. This leads to many people who don't know how to proceed, because they either don't want to upgrade to Windows 11, or would be willing to, but their PC isn't supported due to Microsoft's consumer unfriendly restrictions on what hardware can be used with Windows 11.

==Windows LTSC Versions with support until 2032==
It is still possible to use Windows 10 and still receive updates for the next years, however that is only possible for the LTSC versions of the operating system, the version that is normally not accessible for the general public. It is still possible to download, install and use that edition of Windows 10, only thing is, you can't just normally install that version or upgrade to it and except everything to work the same like in normal Windows 10. The LTSC versions of Windows 10 don't support Apps, like the Windows Store and any other app that you would install from the Windows store, among other restrictions. Not due to technical limitations or anything like that; it's theoretically possible to have Windows 10 LTSC support all the things a normal Windows 10 installation could support, Microsoft just decided that the LTSC editions won't have the support for Apps and other things built in to the OS.

Here is a Microsoft page that lists the support end dates for ''Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021'' https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021

There is a way to upgrade an existing Windows 10 install to ''Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021'', while keeping all the applications you installed, weather it be a Windows store application or "normal" programs like your browser of choice, games and everything else, and the installers for Windows technically support that as well, it just doesn't let you do that voluntarily, but it can be made to support it.

==Upgrading to an LTSC edition of Windows==
In order to upgrade your PC from normal Windows 10 Home/Pro/Education to ''Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021'' you need the installation medium, that usually comes in an ISO format, and you need to make the installer believe that your currently installed Windows version is that you want to upgrade to. That can either be done automatically by a script, or manually.

====IMPORTANT DISCLAIMERS====
- Windows will not be activated after switching to ''IoT Enterprise LTSC'' and you'll have to acquire a new Windows license for this particular edition of Windows 10 
- The ISO for the '''''IoT''' Enterprise LTSC'' is only available with the English (US) language pack, meaning, no matter what language your OS is set to, it will be set to English (US) after the installation. This can however be changed to any language you want, and Windows supports, once the installation is complete. Microsoft provides a list of supported languages and how to change them, you can find it [https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/language-packs-for-windows-a5094319-a92d-18de-5b53-1cfc697cfca8#windowsversion=windows_10 here] 

===Using the script===
The script can be found in this GitHub [https://github.com/emmi-ari/Windows-10-IoT-LTSC-Convert repository]; additional information for using the script can be found there. 
It is advised that you finished downloading the ISO before proceeding with the script.

Here's the step by step guide to use the script, to upgrade to the LTSC edition of Windows:

''Important: Save and close everything you're doing before proceeding with the installation process. Windows will automatically restart!''

#Once the script is started you'll be asked about the "execution policy". You have to press <code>Y</code> or <code>A</code> and press enter.
#Now a window will open where you have to select the ISO that contains the installer for ''Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021''
#The setup wizard will start now. It'll take a few minutes for the installer to complete the initialization.
#If your current OS does not have English (US) as its system language, you'll be presented with a "What needs your attention" screen, from the installer. Here you have to acknowledge that your system locale will be changed to English (US). You have to click the "OK" button, ''not'' the "Refresh" button on the bottom right of the window.
#Now you should see the setup window displaying a "Ready to install" message, with a recap, that says "Install Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC" and "Keep personal files and apps". You can proceed by clicking the "Install" button.
#There will now be a full screen display of the setup, telling you to wait until the computer restarts.
#You can start using your computer again, when you see a Windows login screen to your account.

===Manual approach===
If you'd rather manually upgrade your computer to the LTSC edition of Windows you of course can. Here's a step by step guide on how to do that:

#Registry Changes
##Open <code>regedit.exe</code> and navigate to <code>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion</code> and
##Change the value for <code>EditionID</code> to <code>IoTEnterpriseS</code>,
##and change the value for <code>ProductName</code> to <code>Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021</code>
#Setup
##Mount the ISO you downloaded, by double clicking the .ISO file in Windows
##Start <code>setup.exe</code> from the root of the mounted installation drive.
##Click on "Change how Windows Setup downloads updates" and select "Not right now". The other option has a huge overhead, and installing updates will be available after a successful installation
##Also make sure that you '''haven't''' checked the checkbox, that grants Microsoft the right to snoop on your installation process via telemetry.
##Go to the next page and accept the license agreement.
##If your current OS does not have English (US) as its system language, you'll be presented with a "What needs your attention" screen, from the installer. Here you have to acknowledge that your system locale will be changed to English (US). You have to click the "OK" button, ''not'' the "Refresh" button on the bottom right of the window.
##Now you should see the setup window displaying a "Ready to install" message, with a recap, that says "Install Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC" and "Keep personal files and apps". You can proceed by clicking the "Install" button.
##There will now be a full screen display of the setup, telling you to wait until the computer restarts.
##You can start using your computer again, when you see a Windows login screen to your account.

==Post installation==
Due to Microsoft making it hard for the normal user to use the ''IoT Enterprise LTSC'' edition of Windows, you will lose your Windows activation and have to activate it again. Also there are several things you could check and do after the setup has completed and the computer is usable again. Windows likes to reinstall system components that were once uninstalled by the user, during the upgrade process, like for example Windows Defender.

===License===
After you first launch the new edition of Windows, you'll have lost your desktop backgrounds. That is because Windows doesn't want to allow for customization on a Windows installation that isn't activated.

There are several ways of activating a Windows product. Product keys are one way, however it is not as trivial to find cheap product keys for this edition of Windows as it is for Windows 10 Home or Pro.
Fortunately there are other ways of activating a Windows installation. If you have any nerd friends, you could ask them for methods.

Windows 10 End of Support

2025-11-05T09:28:47Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Windows 10 End of Support to Guide - Windows 10 End of Support: Add guide so clearer that it is a guide

#REDIRECT [[Guide - Windows 10 End of Support]]

Guide - Windows 10 end of support

2025-11-05T09:28:47Z

Drakeula: Drakeula moved page Windows 10 End of Support to Guide - Windows 10 End of Support: Add guide so clearer that it is a guide

Microsoft account

2025-11-05T09:15:36Z

Drakeula: /* See also */

{{StubNotice}}{{ProductCargo
|Company=Microsoft
|ReleaseYear=2019
|InProduction=Yes
|Logo=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_logo.svg
|Website=https://account.microsoft.com/account
|Description=Represents you. Controls access to Microsoft products and services. Allows Microsoft to track and control what you do.
}}{{See also|Account}}

'''Microsoft account''' represents you. Controls access to [[Microsoft]] products and services. Allows Microsoft to track and control what you do.{{Ph-C-Int}}

==Consumer-impact summary==

*Potential loss of data
*Potential loss of control/access to your Windows computer
*User privacy
*User freedom

==Incidents==
{{Ph-C-Inc}}
This is a list of all consumer-protection incidents related to this product. Any incidents not mentioned here can be found in the [[:Category:{{PAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} category]].

===Example incident one (''date'')===
{{Main|link to the main CR Wiki article}}
Short summary of the incident (could be the same as the summary preceding the article).
===Example incident two (''date'')===
...

Potentially related to: [[Microsoft's anticompetitive practices]]

Mysteriously banned the developer of LibreOffice from his Hotmail Account; Automated systems handled the appeal process and refused to restore access to his account, potentially harming LibreOffice's development.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Simms |first=Daniel |date=Jul 30, 2025 |title=Microsoft suddenly bans LibreOffice developer's email account, blocks appeal |url=https://www.techspot.com/news/108878-microsoft-suddenly-bans-libreoffice-developer-email-account-blocks.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=TechSpot}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Beri |first=Devesh |date=Aug 1, 2025 |title=Microsoft Bans Profile Belonging to Developer Behind Free Microsoft Office Alternative |url=https://tech.yahoo.com/business/articles/microsoft-bans-profile-belonging-developer-204536148.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=ExtremeTech}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kumar |first=Rohit |date=Aug 3, 2025 |title=LibreOffice Developer Says Microsoft Blocked His Email Account Without Warning |url=https://www.alltechnerd.com/libreoffice-developer-says-microsoft-blocked-his-email-account-without-warning/ |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=All Tech Nerd}}</ref>

==See also==

*[[Inactive account deletion]]
*[[Microsoft Authenticator]]
*[[Microsoft ends use of bypassnro.cmd for Windows 11]]
*[[Microsoft Office 365]]
*[[Microsoft Windows 11]]
*[[Minecraft account migration]]
*[[OneDrive]]
*[[Xbox]] 

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Microsoft]]

Article suggestions

2025-11-05T09:08:46Z

Drakeula: /* List of incidents not yet covered */ remove MS account

This page is dedicated towards providing a communal list for users to submit potential articles to feature on the wiki, and to give editors inspiration on what pages they might want to add to the wiki. If you create an article based on an entry from this list, or see that someone else has done so, please make sure to delete the row from this page in order to prevent confusion.

Sources should be inserted within the 'refs' section of the table. If using the visual editor, take advantage of '<nowiki/>'''insert reference'''<nowiki/>' via ''''ctrl + shift + k'''<nowiki/>' so that the sources are quick to add to future articles. If you are using the source editor, feel free to copy and paste the formatting from other correctly formatted references on the page. The more sources you include with an article idea, the more likely it is that others will pick the article idea up and run with it, so please attempt to include a good variety of descriptive sources!

Please take note of the wiki's [[Consumer Rights Wiki:Inclusion guidelines|Inclusion criteria]] when submitting article suggestions. If you see article suggestions here which do not fit the Wiki, feel free to remove them, leaving your reasoning in an edit note.

If you are an editor looking for further inspiration to write an article, you can also check out the [[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory|Louis Rossmann video directory]] for a good collection of potential articles.

==Example==
Below is an example of what an entry should appear as:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[Nintendo]]
|In 2025, the company Nintendo stripped Switch 2 consoles that used the MIG switch cartridge of all online functionality
|<ref name=":3">{{Cite web |last=Scattered Brain |date=Jun 16, 2025 |title=Soo... Nintendo banned my Switch 2 (Don't try the MIG Switch!) |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgYTA18_vo&t=656s |access-date=Jun 18, 2025 |website=[[YouTube]]}}</ref><ref name=":0">{{Cite news |last=Orland |first=Kyle |date=Jun 17, 2025 |title=Switch 2 users report online console bans after running personal game “backups” |url=https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/playing-personal-game-backups-could-get-your-switch-2-banned-by-nintendo/ |access-date=Jun 19, 2025 |work=Ars Technica}}</ref>
|}

==List of incidents not yet covered==
{| class="wikitable"
!Company
!Summary of Incident
!Refs
|-
|[[ABC Financial Services]]
|Manages memberships and recurring service subscriptions for other companies. Prevents customers from being able to cancel a service by locking them into a never-ending cycle of auto renewals, and not allowing the customer to opt out of auto renewal.
|-
|Affinity / Canva
|Canva purchases Serif; the owner of perpetual license design software Affinity Publisher, Designer, and Photo on March 26th 2024. Provides a pledge to assure users that Canva will not "ruin" the suite. In October 2025, Affinity users are locked out of the community forum for a new "Creative Freedom" announcement on October 30th 2025. Complete radio silence for a whole month while they tease long term users on Twitter and Discord. Finally on October 30th 2025, the new Affinity software is announced as "free". Instead, all creative professionals that used the original software are forced to create a new Canva account to access the new Affinity and thus agree to Canva's ToS<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |date=2025-10-30 |title=Canva Terms of Use |url=https://www.canva.com/policies/terms-of-use/ |url-status=live |website=Canva Legal Trust Center}}</ref>. Affinity redirects the pledge page to an announcement for the new software, effectively burying the original pledge<ref name=":4">{{Cite web |date=2024-03-27 |title=The Affinity and Canva Pledge |url=https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-and-canva-pledge |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251002083749/https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/press/newsroom/affinity-and-canva-pledge/ |archive-date=2025-10-02 |website=web.archive.org}}</ref>. Questions about Canva now being able to monetize the work of professionals to train their own AI models sold to Canva users are left unanswered. Free, but at what cost?
EDIT: Initial article has been written but needs more work, citation, and verification. [[Canva adds arbitration clause for future Affinity Studio users|See this article here]].
|<ref name=":1" /><ref name=":4" />
|-
|[[Apple]]
|$17 000 Apple Watch 18 karat gold edition out of support only 8 years after its introduction (not end of sale!). This means no software support, and, crucially, no repair or replacement parts. If the battery dies, the watch is but a paperweight.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple will no longer fix the $17,000 gold Apple Watch |url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23900158/apple-watch-edition-gold-2015-obsolete-unsupported-beyonce |website=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|Apple, Beats
|No support for Powerbeats (4th generation) despite the headphones being under 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale. The product is not listed as discontinued or vintage, and by Apple's own guidelines, should be eligible for replacement parts and repair. OEM replacement eartips cannot be purchased for any Beats earphones.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty |url=https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Beats Repair and Service |url=https://support.apple.com/beats/repair |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple store search for eartips |url=https://www.apple.com/us/search/eartips?src=alp |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18}}</ref>
|-
|Apple App Store
|Removal of likely legal apps designed to evade law enforcement agencies accused of illegal conduct and human rights violations upon request by authorities without court order, instead citing violations of store terms. This happened in Hong Kong in 2019 with Hong Kong Police during demonstrations and in the USA in 2025 with the ICE Block app.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple removes ICEBlock app from App Store|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iceblock-app-store-removed-2025-10}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Apple removes police tracking app used in Hong Kong protests from its app store |url=https://hksar.org/apple-removes-police-tracking-app-used-in-hong-kong-protests-from-its-app-store}}</ref>
|-
|Atlassian
|Users forced from on-premise to cloud only subscriptions
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Ascend to the cloud: The next chapter for Atlassian and our customers |url=https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-ascend}}</ref>
|-
|[[Audi]]
|Subscription-based paywalling of basic features of the Audi A3 in the EU and the UK.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=MickDrivesCars |date=2025-07-28 |title=How to ruin your car brand |url=https://youtu.be/ueHgn6UTZjk |url-status=live |website=YouTube}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Haefner |first=Morgan |last2=Hodge |first2=Lawrence |date=2024-03-14 |title=Audi wants buyers to pay for basic car features |url=https://qz.com/audi-a3-buyers-must-subscribe-to-use-basic-car-features-1851333470 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/B1SHT |archive-date=2025-08-25 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=Quartz}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Hundal |first=Thomas |date=2024-03-13 |title=Audi Wants European A3 Customers To Subscribe To Features That Come Standard On A Base Toyota Corolla |url=https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250208095611/https://www.theautopian.com/audi-wants-european-a3-customers-to-subscribe-to-features-that-come-standard-on-a-base-toyota-corolla/ |archive-date=2025-02-08 |access-date=2025-08-25 |work=The Autopian}}</ref>
|-
|[[Axon]]
|Tazers sold with lease agreement that makes purchase effectively a subscription.
|[https://norwoodrecord.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/4/8/114832579/norwood_record_pages_1_to_12__4sep2025.pdf <nowiki>[69]</nowiki>]
|-
|[[Cloudary Holdings Limited / Webnovel]]
|Terms of service with binding Arbitration.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Webnovel ToS |url=https://www.webnovel.com/terms_of_service}}</ref>
|-
|Devolo
|Devolo switches off servers and removes their app from stores for their "Home Control" system, thus severely reducing the functionality of their devices (apparently Z-Wave-based).
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.golem.de/news/weiterbetrieb-verursacht-weitere-kosten-devolo-macht-smart-home-system-zum-grossteil-unbrauchbar-2508-199409.html |website=Golem [German]}}</ref>
|-
|E621
|Terms of service that require agreement to forced arbitration to use the website.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-02 |title=E621 |url=https://e621.net/ |url-status=live |website=E621}}</ref>
|-
|EcoVac
|Vacuum cleaner robots produced by company 'EcoVac' were found vulnerable to hacking over bluetooth allowing for remote control and access to camera feed. Security researcher Dennis Giese notified the company in December of 2023. In August of 2024, the issue was described by the company as "extremely rare in typical user environments and require specialized hacking tools and physical access to the device."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Fell |first=Julian |date=2024-10-04 |title=We hacked a robot vacuum — and could watch live through its camera - ABC News |url=https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-04/robot-vacuum-hacked-photos-camera-audio/104414020 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-09-10 |website=ABC News}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-09 |title=Ecovacs home robots can be hacked to spy on their owners, researchers say {{!}} TechCrunch |url=https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/09/ecovacs-home-robots-can-be-hacked-to-spy-on-their-owners-researchers-say/ |url-status=live}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Franceschi-Bicchierai |first=Lorenzo |date=2024-08-15 |title=Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on X: "Finally, Ecovacs responds to the researchers' findings, saying it won't fix the bugs. |url=https://x.com/lorenzofb/status/1823774980460388675}}</ref>
|-
|[[Elegoo Centauri Carbon|Elegoo]]
|The Elegoo Centauri Carbon 3d printer has been proven to use open source Klipper software which requires them to publish their changes to the code.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-28 |title=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance |url=https://freethecode.lol/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-28 |website=PSA: Elegoo Centauri Carbon & GPL Compliance}}</ref>
|-
|[[Embodied]]
|This is case of "software tethering". Embodied's $799 companion robot Moxie permanently shut down once the company decided to shut down cloud services. According to Embodied's own website "Moxie relies on cloud connectivity for its core features, and it will not function once services end ... Our Terms of Service specify that services may be terminated at any time without prior notice."
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Notopoulos |first=Katie |date=2024-12-11 |title=They bought an $800 AI robot for their kids. Now the company is shutting down — and children are having to say goodbye. |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250816193431/https://www.businessinsider.com/moxie-robot-toy-shutting-down-kids-embodied-goodbye-2024-12?op=1 |archive-date=2025-08-16 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Business Insider}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Closing FAQs – Moxie Robot |url=https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241126054436/https://moxierobot.com/pages/closing-faqs |archive-date=2024-11-26 |access-date=2025-08-16 |website=moxierobot.com}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Degeurin |first=Mack |date=2024-12-10 |title=‘I love you… goodbye:’ What will happen when this companion robot suddenly dies? |url=https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241212035257/https://www.popsci.com/technology/moxie-robot-offline/ |archive-date=2024-12-12 |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=Popular Science}}</ref>
|-
|Foxit Reader
|Updater uses dark pattern to trick unsuspecting users into installing a trial version of their paid product. The checkbox is enabled again by default with each update in the hope that the user misses it by accident at some point.
|
|-
|[[Google]]
|The shutdown of game streaming service Google Stadia on Jan 19th 2023 happened relatively gracefully, with remaining subscriptions refunded and further purchases made impossible. Controllers bought by consumers were offered a conversion process that repurposed them for use as generic Bluetooth game controllers, although the official conversion method at this time is actively provided by Google in form of a webpage and cannot be archived from that state, and on top of that only works in Chrome; at the time of writing the conversion page is expected to remain until December 31st 2025, and this is the date set by a second deadline extension. No official archivable means of conversion are offered at this time.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Thank you for playing with us. Stadia was shut down on January 18, 2023. |url=https://stadia.google.com/gg/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-20 |website=Stadia}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-03-08 |title=Stadia Announcement FAQ |url=https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/12790109 |url-status=live |website=Stadia Help}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Mustafa |first=Mahmoud |date=2024-12-10 |title=You now have one extra year to update your Stadia Controller’s firmware |url=https://www.kitguru.net/peripherals/mustafa-mahmoud/you-now-have-one-extra-year-to-update-your-stadia-controllers-firmware/ |website=KitGuru.net}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Stadia Bluetooth mode |url=https://stadia.google.com/controller/index_en_GB.html |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-20 |website=Stadia}}</ref>
|-
|[[Google Chromecast]]
|Chromecast has transitioned from a standalone product to one that requires the Google Home app for setup and control. This change prevents customers who either don't own a smartphone or prefer not to use the app from accessing their Chromecast devices. As a result, certain televisions—such as the Caixon EC43S1UA, which relied on built-in Chromecast functionality—can no longer be used as intended. This effectively removes a key feature from a product that was already purchased, diminishing its value or rendering it unusable altogether.
|
|-
|Google TLS Changes
|Google's new requirements to certificate authorities require separate authority/signing chains to be used to issue Server Authentication and Client Authentication certificates. Therefore, starting 11 February 2026, Let's Encrypt will no longer include the Client Authentication EKU on default certificates
|
|-
|Google
|Google apparently plans to reduce the interval of publishing source code of security patches they consider non-critical. This is another blow to the custom ROM community.
Right now we don't have these incidents organised chronologically, maybe we should have a table with a timeline of measures Google takes to enshittify and close down Android (more APIs moved to Play Services, Developer verification, withholding AOSP device trees for Pixel devices to mess with Graphene OS, now delayed source code disclosure). What's worst, they always cite safety as a reason.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Exclusive: Google wants to make Android phones safer by switching to ‘risk-based’ security updates |url=https://www.androidauthority.com/android-risk-based-security-updates-3597466/}}</ref>
|-
|Google, Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft, but largely Google-led
|Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, and Safari are removing XSLT 1.0 support, which could break critical parts of government's websites worldwide<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dimant |first=Dimitrii "Mamut" |date=2025-08-10 |title=XSLT removal will break multiple government and regulatory sites across the world #11582 |url=https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=Github (specifically the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group's HTML standards repo, controlled by Mozilla, Google, Microsoft and Apple)}}</ref>. There are valid security reasons for them to want to stop supporting this 1999-era standard, however they have had 26+ years to update to a newer standard (such as the 2017-era 3.1 standard, which is backwards compatible and would allow these sites to continue to work<ref>{{Cite web |date=2017-03-21 |title="XML Path Language (XPath) 3.1: W3C Recommendation 21 March 2017" |url=https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ |url-status=live |website=https://www.w3.org/}}</ref>). The single unpaid developer maintaining these libraries has more or less retired after getting flooded with impossible to satisfy security requests from these companies<ref>{{Cite web |last=Wellnhoffer |first=Nick |date=2025-05-08 |title=Triaging security issues reported by third parties |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libxml2/-/issues/913 |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-25 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>. There is an existing project called XRUST to implement the 3.1 standard<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-05-09 |title=XRust: XPath, XQuery, and XSLT for Rust |url=https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Rust/markup-rs/xrust |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=https://gitlab.gnome.org}}</ref>, which is 2/3rds of the way through supporting all the features of 1.0 - the XSLT part fully supports all the 1.0 features at this point. XSLT is part of the W3C Consortium's open web standards for formatting and presenting XML, and is also how RSS works, so RSS feeds would stop working as well, disrupting the livelihoods of podcasters<ref>{{Cite web |last=Rijo |first=Luis |date=2025-08-20 |title=Google targets RSS feeds in new XSLT removal proposal |url=https://ppc.land/google-targets-rss-feeds-in-new-xslt-removal-proposal/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=PPC-Land}}</ref>. This has led to questions of who owns the web - the public (including the government) who paid for and laid down the highways / web infrastructure - or a handful of large corporations? <ref>{{Cite web |last=Branscombe |first=Mary |date=2025-09-01 |title=XSLT Debate Leads to Bigger Questions of Web Governance |url=https://thenewstack.io/xslt-debate-leads-to-bigger-questions-of-web-governance/ |access-date=2025-10-14 |website=The New Stack}}</ref>
|
|-
|[[GoPro]] Hero 12
|GoPro Hero 12 requires the GoPro app to be installed before you can use the camera. Many currently used devices are not compatible with the app, therefore making use of the camera difficult to impossible for new owners or upon camera factory reset. There's also the question of what data the app collects and whether it requires login and or camera activation.
|
|-
|[[H&R Block]]
|Marketing paid products as free, deleting users' tax data upon downgrading to free versions, and forcing users to contact support to get access to the free version of the tax filing software. FTC alleges coercive and obstructive techniques are used to make users pay for services they don't need as well.
|
|-
|Hewlett-Packard(HP)
|Hewlett-Packard(HP) is removing support pages for older products, making it more difficult to continue to use older products, generally making the support experience worse, and trying to coerce users to buy new products.
|<ref>{{Cite web |first=gremlin12345 |date=Oct 17, 2025 |title=HP will remove perfectly good documentation for products they no longer support. This seems very anti-consumer. |url=https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/1o91l44/hp_will_remove_perfectly_good_documentation_for/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251021202329/https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/1o91l44/hp_will_remove_perfectly_good_documentation_for/ |archive-date=2025-10-21 |access-date=2025-10-21 |website=Reddit}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=Oct 21, 2025 |title=HP Keeps Getting Worse - LMG Clips |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNM_xUcYpK0 |url-status=live |work=Linus Media Group}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=HP support pae for the j4500-j4600 series |url=https://support.hp.com/in-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-officejet-j4500-j4600-all-in-one-printer-series/3645081 |url-status=live}}</ref>
|-
|[[Hikvision]]
|Chinese surveillance camera manufacturer complicit in Uighur genocide which used to advertise recognition of praying and ramadan fasting among its selling points. Similarly to [[Flock License Plate Readers|Flock]], they are in use world wide and likely feed directly into the Chinese government's surveillance infrastructure and could conceivably be used to find dissidents world-wide. Recently, [https://netzpolitik.org/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/ the city of Hamburg has installed them] ([https://netzpolitik-org.translate.goog/2025/hikvision-hersteller-der-hamburger-ki-ueberwachungskameras-ist-fuer-menschenrechtsverletzungen-bekannt/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp Google Translate Version in English]).
|
|-
|[[Internet radios]]
|I'd like a page where I can share information about internet radios "openness." Few allow you to enter a radio station's URL (which I would consider the least intrusive option). Most depend on third-party websites or apps; [https://www.sangean.com/uk/blog/149 some of which have already bricked devices].
|
|-
|[[IPVideo Corporation]] (owned by [[Motorola]])
|Manufacturer of surveillance hardware. The notable example that brought them to my attention is the Halo 3C/3C-PC Smart Sensor, which is deployed in places such as school bathrooms and subsidized/social housing. This system has a variety of sensors on it, from air quality ones (for detecting smoking/vape usage) all the way to microphones (ostensibly for audio analysis to identify aggression and gunshots, without the capability to stream the audio elsewhere, but this not a limitation built into the hardware and could be changed by a firmware update).
|<ref>{{Cite_web |last=Reynaldo |last2=nyx |name-list-style=amp |date=2025-10-10 |title=DEF CON 33 - Unmasking the Snitch Puck: IoT surveillance tech in the school bathroom |url=https://youtu.be/WCnojaEpF2I |publisher=DEF CON}}</ref><ref>{{Cite_web |access-date=2025-10-26 |url=https://www.pelco.com/sensors |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250922000017/https://www.pelco.com/sensors |archive-date=2025-09-22 |title=HALO Smart Sensor Suite |website=PELCO}}</ref>
|-
|[[IRobot]]
|Creator of Roomba automatic floor vacuums, CEO made statement in 2017 about selling customer's floor plan data. This company and the data was almost bought by Amazon, but fell through in 2024 after threats by EU Regulators
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Wolfe |first=Jan |date=2017-07-28 |title=Roomba vacuum maker iRobot betting big on the 'smart' home |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-irobot-strategy-idUSKBN1A91A5/ |work=Reuters}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Zeff |first=Maxwell |date=2024-01-29 |title=Roomba Won’t Give Amazon a Map of Your Home After Merger Implodes |url=https://gizmodo.com/roomba-won-t-give-amazon-map-home-after-merger-implodes-1851205940 |website=Gizmodo}}</ref>
|-
|[[itch.io]], [[Night School Studios]], [[Netflix]]
|In September 2024, users who purchased Oxenfree on itch.io were warned that the game was going to be pulled from the platform on October 1st. Consumers would not be able to download the installers after this date, so they would lose access unless they had them backed up. Users speculated that Netflix, the parent company of the development studio, had ordered the move; however, no response from Netflix or the developers was ever published. This is particularly notable because it is against itch.io's terms of service: "Users shall retain a license to this content even after the content is removed from the Service."
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=itch corp |date=15 Apr 2023 |title=itch.io Terms of Service |url=https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240907004719/https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms |archive-date=7 Sep 2024 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=itch.io}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=ShawnS |date=31 Jan 2025 |title=OXENFREE |url=https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250321070400/https://delistedgames.com/oxenfree/ |archive-date=21 Mar 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=Delisted Games}}</ref> <ref>{{Cite web |last=Colp |first=Tyler |date=9 Sep 2024 |title=Another reminder that your digital library isn't forever: Oxenfree will be completely removed from Itch.io next month |url=https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250523111125/https://www.pcgamer.com/games/adventure/another-reminder-that-your-digital-library-isn-t-forever-oxenfree-will-be-completely-removed-from-itch-io-next-month/ |archive-date=23 May 2025 |access-date=27 Jun 2025 |website=PC Gamer}}</ref>
|-
|Japan Times, The
|The Japan Times uses DMCA to take down an open source study resource for Genki and Quartet workbooks.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Clydesdale |first=Seth |date=2025-09-11 |title=Important Information Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Important-Information-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-D1D21L4B1S}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Update Regarding Genki and Quartet Study Resources DMCA Situation |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-Regarding-Genki-and-Quartet-Study-Resources-Y8Y21M1F5E}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-03 |title=All Exercises for Genki/Quartet Study Resources Have Been Removed |url=https://ko-fi.com/post/All-Exercises-for-GenkiQuartet-Study-Resources-Wi-R6R81M8LLN}}</ref>
|-
|LBRY Foundation, Odysee
|Community first decentralization & Odysseys plan to enable censorship by switching away from the opensource LBRY network.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=The LBRY Foundation |url=https://lbry.org/ |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-08 |quote=The LBRY community invites everyone to join us in building a more free and open way to share content and information online.}}</ref><ref name=":2">{{Cite news |last=Watson |first=RT |date=2024-06-06 |title=Decentralized YouTube alternative Odysee acquired by Forward Research despite content concerns |url=https://www.theblock.co/post/298888/decentralized-youtube-alternative-odysee-acquired-by-forward-research-despite-content-concerns |url-status=live |access-date=2025-08-16 |work=The Block}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last=Li |first=Jun |last2=Grintsvayg |first2=Alex |last3=Kauffman |first3=Jeremy |last4=Fleming |first4=Charles |date=2020 |title=LBRY: A Blockchain-Based Decentralized Digital Content Marketplace |url=https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9126007 |journal=2020 IEEE International Conference on Decentralized Applications and Infrastructures (DAPPS) |location=Oxford, UK |publisher=IEEE |doi=10.1109/DAPPS49028.2020.00005 |isbn=978-1-7281-6978-1 |via=IEEE Xplore}}</ref>
|-
|[[Lowes]]
|Lowes uses flock cameras and other AI powered cameras to collect data and build a profile on "prospective, current, or former Lowe's customers". Their cameras point away from their stores.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Koebler |first=Jason |date=2025-08-06 |title=Home Depot and Lowe's Share Data From Hundreds of AI Cameras With Cops |url=https://www.404media.co/home-depot-and-lowes-share-data-from-hundreds-of-ai-cameras-with-cops/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/n6mTn |archive-date=2025-08-07 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=404 Media}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-08-26 |title=Lowe’s U.S. Privacy Statement |url=https://www.lowes.com/l/about/privacy-and-security-statement |url-status=live |archive-url=https://archive.ph/eGh91 |archive-date=2025-08-05 |access-date=2025-09-15 |website=Lowes}}</ref>
|-
|McDonald's/Taylor
|McDonald's US mandates which ice cream machine has to be used by franchise licensees. The company that makes these machines uses deliberately obfuscated error codes to force restaurant owners to use their expensive tech service to fix them and reset the machines. The company makes more money from these "repairs" support than with actual sales. Not strictly end consumer, but the pattern warrants documenting imo.
A similar problem exists with Doremi (Dolby) cinema projectors where their DRM leads to a ridiculous number of actions breaking the so-called "marriage" (projector-media block unity), requiring a costly technician to reset it. This one needs sources researched, though, as I don't have one on hand.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Why McDonald's Ice Cream Machines Are Always Broken and How To Fix Them |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uCpY3tFTIA}}</ref>
|-
|[[Meta]]/[[Facebook]], [[Yandex]]
|Automatic opt-in of user-generated content being used for the purposes of training AI.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Borgesius |first=Frederik |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=Post on akademienl.social |url=https://akademienl.social/@Frederik_Borgesius/114392662340468118 |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |website=akademienl.social}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |date=Apr 24, 2025 |title=AP: kom nu in actie als je niet wil dat Meta AI traint met jouw data |url=https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/actueel/ap-kom-nu-in-actie-als-je-niet-wil-dat-meta-ai-traint-met-jouw-data |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl}}</ref>
|-
|[[Meta]]/[[WhatsApp]]
|In a new lawsuit, an ex-engineer alleges that 1500 engineers had unrestricted access to WhatsApp user data and that the company "failed to remedy the hacking and takeover of more than 100,000 accounts each day, ignoring his pleas and proposed fixes and choosing instead to prioritize user growth". (ongoing)
|[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/08/meta-user-data-lawsuit-whatsapp]
|-
|[[Microsoft]]
|Microsoft uses software engineers based in China to work on US Defense Department systems with laughably ineffective precautions. I think this is relevant in the context of Microsoft's attitude towards cloud security. In the past, master keys have been stolen by Chinese hackers and from my understanding, it's not even clear to what extent those groups still have access to Microsoft's internal systems, and by extension, Microsoft customers'. This needs more research though.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Dudley |first=Renee |date=2025-07-15 |title=A Little-Known Microsoft Program Could Expose the Defense Department to Chinese Hackers |url=https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-digital-escorts-pentagon-defense-department-china-hackers |website=ProRepublica}}</ref>
|-
|[[Microsoft Windows 11]]
|The Windows 11 Bing Wallpaper app, which offers regularly changing desktop wallpapers, opens bing.com at every single click onto the desktop and tries to make bing.com the default search engine during launch. This is the latest step in a series of invasive actions to get Windows users to use Bing and Edge.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.windowslatest.com/2025/10/26/windows-11s-bing-wallpaper-app-opens-bing-com-if-you-click-anywhere-on-the-desktop/}}</ref>
|-
|[[Mitsubishi Motors]]
|Mitsubishi Motors has a rich history of consumer protection, compliance issues and privacy breaches. These include concealing safety defects, falsifying fuel economy data, and being fined for false advertising. Following the trend of subscription services for the automotive industry, Mitsubishi paywalls built-in features including remote start, SOS, collision detection, and car tracking through its app Mitsubishi Connect subscription service.
|[https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mitsubishi-fined-42-million-by-japans-consumer-affairs-agency-115026.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://leakd.com/leaks/mitsubishi-motors-vietnam-customer-data-breached/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Motors?utm_source=chatgpt.com] [https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?order=pen_year&parent=mitsubishi-motors&sort=&utm_source=chatgpt.com][https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/newsroom/newsrelease/2017/20171129_3.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
|-
|Navdy, Harman International
|Device discontinued and no updates, device can be used offline for 1 year until it stops working.
https://www.reddit.com/r/navdy/
|
|-
|Nothing
|Nothing brings home-screen ads (can be disabled manually) and bloatware to its lower end models despite previously boasting about being bloatware free
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Floemer |first=Andreas |date=2025-10-27 |title=Phone 3a: NothingOS 4.0 brings optional ads to the lock screen |url=https://www.heise.de/en/news/Phone-3a-NothingOS-4-0-brings-optional-ads-to-the-lock-screen-10904033.html |access-date=2025-10-27 |website=Heise Online}}</ref>
|-
|PEAK
|Dev: Team PEAK Publisher: Landfall & Aggrocrab. Forced arbitration.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://store.steampowered.com/eula/3527290_eula_0}}</ref>
|-
|[https://www.skystone.games/ Skystone Games]
|Boundary, a multiplayer online-only first-person shooter, got shut down just a year after its release by Skystone games, and its publishing rights relinquished, citing "ongoing delays and a lack of updates from the developer". Studio Surgical Scalpels (the developer) stated that the publisher decissions were "extremely sudden and unreasonable", and attempted to "regain the rights to boundary". The game has been offline for more than a year at the time of writing, and no refunds or communications to the userbase has been made by Skystone Games.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-19 |title=Boundary - End of service notice |url=https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1364020/view/4209257868262605607?l=english |url-status=live |access-date=2025-07-07 |website=Steam}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-06-30 |title=Boundary Shut Down: Who's to Blame? |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8IhV1fovE |url-status=live}}</ref>
|-
|[[Slack]]
|Slack threatened to deactivate the Slack workspace and delete all message history of a nonprofit unless they agreed to a price hike of $200k yearly and also pay an extra $50k within a week. There were no prior warnings from Slack. A few years prior to this incident, they had agreed to migrate from the free nonprofit plan to a $5k per year plan.
|<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-09-18 |title=Slack is extorting us with a $195k/yr bill increase |url=https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250930075808/https://skyfall.dev/posts/slack |archive-date=2025-09-30}}</ref>
|-
|[[Sony]]
|The PSVita required a proprietary memory system and came with no usable memory natively; as a result, to effectively use the console, one had to purchase official, expensive memory cards from Sony. The PCH-1000 also had a proprietary charging port, making it nearly impossible to replace the cable should it break once Sony's support for the console dwindled. The charging port issue was later addressed via an updated console which changed the port to a microUSB connection. However, the expensive proprietary memory card issue remained and was exacerbated by Sony's blockage of using the PCH-2000's 1GB of storage while a memory card was inserted. Sony's continued efforts to block homebrew via firmware updates limited the owner's ability to continue using the device years after support was dropped for the console.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=PlayStation Vita Launches From 22 February 2012 |url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://blog.playstation.com/archive/2011/10/19/playstation-vita-launches-from-22-february-2012/ |archive-date=2011-10-19 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation.Blog}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=PS Vita Slim internal storage not usable with a memory card |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131013181238/http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/ |archive-date=2013-10-13 |website=Just Push Start}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Types of card media |url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://manuals.playstation.net/document/gb/psvita/basic/media.html |archive-date=2012-08-29 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Playstation}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Meet the Hackers Breathing New Life Into Sony’s Abandoned PlayStation Vita |url=https://www.vice.com/en/article/meet-the-hackers-breathing-new-life-into-sonys-abandoned-playstation-vita/? |url-status=live |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=Vice}}</ref>
|-
|[[Superbox]]
|Android TV box manufacturer Superbox remotely locks consumers' devices if they were sold below the manufacturer's minimum specified prices and asks consumers to contact the retailer when they complain.
They are not the first to do something like this. [[Deye]] locked down inverters in the US that they suspected might be gray imports.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I5-rAyFQrk}}</ref>
|-
|[[TikTok]]
|Integrated AI tools to track user behaviors even more for the purposes of selling to advertisers
|<ref>{{Cite news |last=Sato |first=Mia |date=Jun 3, 2025 |title=TikTok will give advertisers even more data on trends and users |url=https://www.theverge.com/news/678255/tiktok-advertiser-summit-ai-targeting-data-seo |access-date=Jun 25, 2025 |work=The Verge}}</ref>
|-
|UP3 By [[Jawbone]]
|Approximately 2011, Pioneering startup company from San Francisco, had revolutionary fitness trackers. In 2017 with no notice to customers they stole personal data and shut down app which in turn, bricked devices. Highly likely went bankrupt and sold to sister company to manipulate customer services and rights. Now owned by Aliph brands.
|
|-
|Wheatstone Corporation
|Wheatstone Corporation are a manufacturer of professional broadcast equipment, mainly audio consoles and interfaces that utilise their proprietary Wheatnet audio over IP protocol.
Wheatstone restricts access to firmware updates, software configuration tools and software. You must open a support ticked in order for them to send you a download link to these software tools, they make it very difficult to access software required to make their hardware audio interfaces work, even stating they want proof of purchase (not just a licence key) before they will even give you the download link. Managing licences is also non-existent and you will need to contact support, and as such a fee is imposed.
|
|-
|[[Wireless Power Consortium]]
|After monopolizing wireless charging market Qi turned from an open standard into a proprietary.
Version 1.3 introduced "secure authentication between the transmitter and the receiver", i.e. in order to operate every charger must include an expensive proprietary chip licensed only to certified members. This results in increased development and manufacturing costs directly passed onto consumer. Version 2.2, unlike previous versions, "is available for WPC Members only".
|<ref>{{Cite web |title=Qi Certification Is Changing and We've Got You Covered |url=https://www.nxp.com/company/about-nxp/smarter-world-blog/BL-QI-CERTIFICATION-IS-CHANGING| website=NXP Semiconductors}}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |title=Download the Qi Specifications |url=https://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/knowledge-base/specifications/download-the-qi-specifications/| website=Wireless Power Consortium}}</ref>
|-
|Wolfgang Puck, Bread maker
|Some of the bread makers have anti repair screws in them to prevent people from repairing them themselves. Needs more citations.
|
|-
|[[World Orb]]
|World Network (Sam Altman/Open AI) scheme to collect biometric data on all people. Tied to cryptocurrency, AI schemes. Supposedly way for people to show they are human (run by the people who are trying to make a profit from AI).
|
|}

==List of themes not yet covered==
Consumer Rights Wiki is not an encyclopedia.

*Before proposing or making a theme article, see if you can find an article that covers the topic on wikipedia, or some other reference. If you can, just use a reference to that.
*Check the list of theme articles [[:Category:common terms]], to be sure there isn't already an article on the topic, or one closely related. Sometimes a theme may be covered by generalizing an existing article.

{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Theme
!Summary of Theme
!Refs
|-
|
|
|
|}

==List of companies doing the right thing==
It would be helpful to include examples of companies doing the right thing, even if they aren't, strictly speaking, consumer products.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Company
!Good deed
!Refs
|-
|Tektronix
|Provided extensive product data on unsupported products to a museum, vintageTEK, and thus to tekwiki and the rest of the community.
|<ref>{{Cite web |last=Lenihan |first=Thomas F. |date=2012-02-28 |title=Copyright Notice |url=https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250828004431/https://vintagetek.org/copyright-notice/ |archive-date=2025-08-28 |access-date=2025-10-18 |website=vintageTEK museum}}</ref>
|-
|Ulanzi
|The company offers a tutorial on how users can mix their own fog juice to use with Ulanzi mini fog machines from readily available low-cost ingredients, whereas competitors sell proprietary fog juice at extortionate prices, refuse to release the formula and refuse to honour the warranty if users use anything but the OEM brand with their machines.
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiq1B6-dcEM}}</ref>
|-
|APSystems
|After requests from users, the company released a firmware update that adds a local API to their EZ-1M solar micro inverter, allowing it to remain fully usable if the company ends support for the device
|<ref>{{Cite web |title= |url=https://global.apsystems.com/document/apsystems-ezhi-local-api-user-manual/}}</ref>
|}

==See Also==

*[[Louis Rossmann - Video Directory]]
*[[Other Channels - Video Directory|Other Channels - VIdeo Directory]]

==Reference List==
<references />
[[Category:Sources]]
'

Microsoft account

2025-11-05T09:07:43Z

Drakeula: /* See also */

{{StubNotice}}{{ProductCargo
|Company=Microsoft
|ReleaseYear=2019
|InProduction=Yes
|Logo=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_logo.svg
|Website=https://account.microsoft.com/account
|Description=Represents you. Controls access to Microsoft products and services. Allows Microsoft to track and control what you do.
}}{{See also|Account}}

'''Microsoft account''' represents you. Controls access to [[Microsoft]] products and services. Allows Microsoft to track and control what you do.{{Ph-C-Int}}

==Consumer-impact summary==

*Potential loss of data
*Potential loss of control/access to your Windows computer
*User privacy
*User freedom

==Incidents==
{{Ph-C-Inc}}
This is a list of all consumer-protection incidents related to this product. Any incidents not mentioned here can be found in the [[:Category:{{PAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} category]].

===Example incident one (''date'')===
{{Main|link to the main CR Wiki article}}
Short summary of the incident (could be the same as the summary preceding the article).
===Example incident two (''date'')===
...

Potentially related to: [[Microsoft's anticompetitive practices]]

Mysteriously banned the developer of LibreOffice from his Hotmail Account; Automated systems handled the appeal process and refused to restore access to his account, potentially harming LibreOffice's development.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Simms |first=Daniel |date=Jul 30, 2025 |title=Microsoft suddenly bans LibreOffice developer's email account, blocks appeal |url=https://www.techspot.com/news/108878-microsoft-suddenly-bans-libreoffice-developer-email-account-blocks.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=TechSpot}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Beri |first=Devesh |date=Aug 1, 2025 |title=Microsoft Bans Profile Belonging to Developer Behind Free Microsoft Office Alternative |url=https://tech.yahoo.com/business/articles/microsoft-bans-profile-belonging-developer-204536148.html |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=ExtremeTech}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Kumar |first=Rohit |date=Aug 3, 2025 |title=LibreOffice Developer Says Microsoft Blocked His Email Account Without Warning |url=https://www.alltechnerd.com/libreoffice-developer-says-microsoft-blocked-his-email-account-without-warning/ |access-date=Aug 4, 2025 |work=All Tech Nerd}}</ref>

==See also==

*[[Microsoft Office 365]]
*[[Microsoft Windows 11]]
*[[OneDrive]]
*[[Xbox]] 

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Microsoft]]