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Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2026-01-04T23:56:56Z

JesseAye: /* Incomplete Article Appeal */ Reply

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

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{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Idea==

Hello everyone, this is more of a general question than one for mods but the [[Template:StubNotice|Stub template]], [[Template:Incomplete|Incomplete template]], [[Template:ToneWarning|Tone template]] and [[Template:SloppyAI|SloppyAI template]] all have the same layout code (with the box being coloured on the incomplete and sloppyai template being the only exception, but codewise is the same). I'm wondering if people would think it is a good idea if I replicate this code for its own template and replace all the code there with just the template. It would be much easier to work on, but it may be harder to add new special things on without changing the template used by it.

'''TL;DR''' is making a template to use the code used from the stub templates just to make it easier to make new ones or change existing ones okay? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:07, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

:That could be a good idea, yeah. Honestly if you're comfortable editing that kind of stuff, anything you could do to make the notices smaller and less obtrusive would be appreciated as well. I'm happy to help with text editing and stuff on them but I'm a bit useless if I have to mess around with css [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 14:40, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
::Making them smaller might require a complete restructure for some, but maybe with smaller text it is fine? I'd need to test it out to see if it doesn't make it hard to read. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:10, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Keith|Keith]], just wondering what you think of [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30697 these two variants] of the incomplete tag and if the idea works at all for making them smaller. I haven't changed div tags at all, but it is just a simple thing to make it smaller. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:26, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I think making them smaller will be more to do with reducing their title text size, and maybe boldness, to be less in-your-face (but still obvious. perhaps more like the 'revision as of...' box you can see if you click the link to the variants you just posted [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:54, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah I don't know much about how to do CSS, and therefore can't do that, but I could just try looking at some resources online to figure it out like how I learned HTML. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:17, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] Had another go at it [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30772 here] and although it definitely isn't perfect, I just want to know what you think of it before I continue. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:50, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::Obviously the spacing needs to come in a bit from the side, but it's certainly closer to what we want! I think changing 'incomplete' to 'verification concerns' or something might make sense (since that's what it's usually used for) [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:32, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Just my 2 cents... I like that it says incomplete and has fields to specify. I find myself using it for things beyond verification, such as how to improve the language, structure, etc. Basically I've been using it as a catch-all, which I know is against what it's intended for, but I've also noticed some users actually commit to those specific changes because it shows how an article could be improved with small efforts.
:::::::I have not been active lately, so I'm not completely certain what improvements @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] has been making to the other templates. But I think going broad could be good, while having input fields for mods or whoever to specify the issues. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 19:25, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I haven't made any other changes to templates except for deleting a couple, but I have to agree that the incomplete template is often used for what it isn't meant to be used for, but does make sense why; I thought for a while that it was just for articles that are better than stubs, but still need to be marked. It isn't clear by nature as it currently is on what it does unless you read the read more bit. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:30, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] @[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30921 The latest one I did] hasn't really done much, but I'd say it is an improvement over the last one. I'm trying to figure out how to make text from the issue params not go right on the border right now, as that really sabotages accessibility. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:42, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Tone appeal - Smartwool==

Hi, since the [[Smartwool adds forced arbitration to EULA|Smartwool EULA incident]] is on "Highlighted Article", I would like to ask if there's any more tone issues; and if there are, some guidance/assistance on fixing them. Thank you for your time! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 04:09, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:After a quick read, tone seems okay, but if you do want to help out, I think expanding it is a great step forward, as it is currently quite small. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 09:12, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::I guess the main thing it's missing are some 'public response' bits going over public/commentator reaction to it happening [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:35, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I was tired at the time I posted this, and didn't realize Keith had removed said notice 6 minutes after my edit asking for it, so the pointers are appreciated.
:::I remember searching a bit for public reaction, and mostly got reddit posts pointing back to the Rossmann video. Maybe someday I'll know what search terms to punch into Duckduckgo. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 15:20, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::::If that is what comes up, it's more likely there are no sources imo and was only talked about by King Louis. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:22, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Approve deletion request==

Regarding my article on Bahnhof, I have all the emails mentioned in the article, and I can share them with you. I also have other direct communications with the CEO (who is also the media contact). I did not mention those in the article to avoid making it personal.

However, I have no idea whether customers are facing the same treatment or just me, and I did not see any media reporting on it, therefore I can not get you a confirmation from a second source.

I published this article as consumer advocacy and to start documenting this company's abuse of their own terms of services.

I am sorry my article did not meet your standards. I could not find how to delete it, so please go ahead and delete it from your site. [[User:Se|Se]] ([[User talk:Se|talk]]) 09:40, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I've deleted it, but just wanted to let you know that if you do find good sources, you're welcome to recreate the article or ask me to undelete it for you to get the version as of when it was deleted. Also, most articles I see get deleted for similar reasons, so you're not alone. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:13, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:I don't think there's any need to delete the article as it is - the content which is currently there is supported by the corren article. I think what @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] was referring to in their edit notice was specifically the sentence that he removed? [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:14, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::Ok nvm I was getting confused and believed that this was referring to this article: [[Stångåstaden kickbacks and hidden rent]] which also mentions bahnhof [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:15, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:::having reviewed the actual article this was about, I'd tend to agree with the deletion for now. If @[[User:Se|Se]] can get this story in front of news orgs or major blogs or similar who can confirm it and back it up and who treat it as a story worth publishing, then we can reconsider but for now it's more of a user report, and this wiki is not intended to be the first port of call for reporting things - instead we aim to be a collection of well-documented articles that can hold up to a bit of outside scrutiny. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:21, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Notice for mods==

@[[User:Keith|Keith]] @[[User:JakeL|JakeL]] @[[User:UntoK|UntoK]] I've changed lots of links, including the ones in the sidebar, because there seems to be a backend update changing the name for CRW talk pages. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:30, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

:Please change this yourself next time if you don't mind, as it's been a bit of a pain going through the links throughout the last 25 minutes! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:45, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::wait, that shouldn't have happened... The projects namespace was supposed to be a new empty one to use for projects, not a name-change of an existing namespace? I'll talk to Unto about it and see what happened [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:58, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you very much for noticing and making things work again! This seems to have been a bug that caused some cursed mediawiki spaghetti interactions. should hopefully have it resolved shortly, and then we'll revert all changes. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:07, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Should we display a [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] while it's happening? Because I got very confused by this and ended up checking the logs to see if it was accidentally moved here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:19, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Ok, Unto's sorted the bug, and I think between us we've un-changed the links. Sorry about all this, and the double reversion on the Incomplete page! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:43, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::It's okay. I've also got some screenshots of me witnessing what's happening, I'll upload them now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:44, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::How did it affect the Oneplus page GoInfo was working on? that seems doubly weird if it did anything there [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:45, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::They said this just now:
::::::::<blockquote>It complained my "stashed changes" didn't exist, and whenever I went back to the page, those changes appeared again. Had to copy all the changes, discard the edit, and reformat the article again for it to be accepted. Seems all good now. Timing's a Biatch sometimes ay
::::::::</blockquote>
::::::::That seems very unusual. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:47, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Ok, hopefully I think that should just be what happened as a result of an edit being in progress while Unto pushed the change, rather than anything to do with the changes themselves. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:49, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah okay. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:49, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::You might not be able to change this, but [[Special:NewPages]] and my watchlist has been completely cleared. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:00, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::Having a look, it looks like watchlist and also the [[Special:RecentChanges]] are cut off as of two days ago. Also the NewUserMessage actions are showing up there despite the human(not bot) filter being auto-enabled. I have no idea why this might be the case but I'll pass it on to unto [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:11, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Also did you get what you wanted to do done? Or did you not get the project namespace finished? Doesn't look like it but just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:13, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Looks like you did! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:17, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::haven't put the projects in the projects namespace yet, will be doing that in the next day or so, but I think things are technically working as they should [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:21, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::hey there, not sure I'm allowed to post here but here's what happened exactly :
::::::::*created my account
::::::::*created new "product" page for OnePlus AI
::::::::*while creating it, I got kicked out (it said my session was expired). Checked and I was indeed logged out after next reload of the page
::::::::*the product page was created anyway
::::::::*went to edit the product page to add all the descriptions and contents, wrote the whole article in one go
::::::::*when trying to publish, I got "non-existing stashed changes <uuid>" or something similiar, couldn't publish, couldn't go to "edit source".
::::::::*logged out, back in, the page was still empty
::::::::*when I went back to the "edit" page, the wiki page re-added my last changes and I basically lost no work on it
::::::::*still couldn't publish for the same error
::::::::*what I had to do was copy the whole contents, cancel the edit, go back to the product page and create a new edit (it asked if I wanted to discard my previous changes or keep them, I discarded), re-formatted the whole article, and it was then golden
::::::::I'm assuming my edit session got deleted on the server-side somehow but was still existing on my client-side and it got desynced that way. Don't think there's much you need to do regarding that issue, but if you're working on the backend, I would freeze all edits to avoid that in the future [[User:GOinfo|GOinfo]] ([[User talk:GOinfo|talk]]) 11:36, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, apologies for this - I think it got caught in the middle of a hotfix. Im the one who's to blame here because I asked Unto to 'just add a feature quickly for me, don't wait for the next patch to be ready'. I'll try to refrain from this in future unless it's properly urgent! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:34, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal: GMS==

([[Google Mobile Services]]). I made the page because GMS is a powerful "card" that google uses to preserve (and grow) its monopoly. They incentivize Android app developers to depend on google-libraries and APIs. Pretty much every app on Play-Store depends so much on Play-Services that they refuse to do any basic tasks (discord and whatsapp are examples, last time I checked). I believe GMS doesn't get enough attention, and google wants it to stay that way.

However, I do agree that the article is very anemic in its current state. But I thought it was a good idea to centralize all knowledge about GMS, so that its relationships can be shown in a link-graph ("What Links Here", and similar stuff) [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 05:15, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

:I've appended the deletion notice with something saying 'don't delete yet, we're discussing it here'. I think if you can find/add one or two non-wikipedia sources that discuss it being an issue, that would be sufficient to keep it as a stub and get rid of the deletion notice. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:39, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::Status update @[[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]]? [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:29, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

==Is youtube still a stub?==

[[YouTube|This]] doesn't look like a stub to me [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 05:18, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

:Removed stubnotice! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:33, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

==Quiz==

Hello, I've been working on this quiz of scope over time for a while [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Quiz|here]]. I want to get input on how I could make this better as currently it is okay but not completely accurate yet and needs some more checking. Ideally this would be a part of the CRW namespace that helps people understand scope easier, but I'm just not quite there yet. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:46, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

:I guess it probably needs to assess notability as well as scope, and we need to decide where that line goes for the creation of an article (e.g. for forced arbitration, do we need one secondary source to have talked about the forced arbitration in order for it to be notable enough for its own article and not just a mention on the company page?) [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:55, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
::I guess it would need a mention outside of the company page or it might be considered original research. I was thinking about that when I made this, my first idea was just to have the company page but I switched to thinking that a random Reddit post would confirm that it has been talked about and therefore can be added. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:48, 7 December 2025 (UTC)

==Filter change==

I've changed [[Special:AbuseFilter/4|filter 4]] to stop it affecting userspace. If there are issues, feel free to revert. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:42, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

:Sounds good to me. Thanks for the catch. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 22:36, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

==Projects namespace is gone==

Hello, I assume this is on purpose but just in case: The projects namespace has been removed entirely. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:39, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

:very likely not on purpose, I'll talk to unto [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:51, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] should be resolved now! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:02, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
:::Project Talk pages are still broken with the naming, but work fine otherwise. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:33, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
::::I’m not seeing any issue. Are you still encountering this? - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 19:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::No, it's fixed now. It seems to have been only temporary. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 21:08, 23 December 2025 (UTC)

==Redirect Request==

In Louis' most recent video on Flock, he linked an article in the description which is incomplete. I think he meant to link [[Common Questions, Arguments, & Responses when discussing Flock Surveillance]] instead of [[Common Questions]], which seems to have been created after the video was posted. The title "Common Questions" doesn't even make sense for the content of the article.

Request: move/merge/delete the second article and redirect its name to the first article, or get Louis to change the video description. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 10:39, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

:just realized i have permissions to do this so i went ahead and moved the second article and created a redirect, the conflicting article is now here [[Flock arguments]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 10:44, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

==Cloudflare trackers are on this site?==

I decided to open the DuckDuckGo privacy essentials extension on this site, expecting to see no trackers at all, but I saw Cloudflare load tracking requests. Can we remove this if possible please? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:14, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

:I'll flag down Keith and the tech team so someone can look into this for you. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 20:45, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

==some template inconstancies==

whilst editing some pages I found a few "oversights" with these templates. [[Template_talk:IndividualPage]] [[Template_talk:ProductLinePreload]] [[Template_talk:ProductCargo]] [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:04, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

:Protected ProductLinePreload, marked InduvidualPage as historical, I might need JakeL or Unto to look at ProductCargo as it uses something that I have no clue how to approach and I could very easily make breaking changes. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:48, 4 January 2026 (UTC)
::can we update [[Template:IndividualPage]]? I was editing [[Mark Zuckerberg]] yesterday and w/o an infobox it felt like smth was missing [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 17:10, 4 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Individual page is unused I'm pretty sure, so no action needed there [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:17, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

==Incomplete Article Appeal==

[[BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data]]

References have been updated to be more aligned with the [[Template:Cite web]] template. [[User:JesseAye|JesseAye]] ([[User talk:JesseAye|talk]]) 18:05, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{Done}}. Nice job on archiving by the way. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:28, 4 January 2026 (UTC)
::Awesome, thank you very much! :) [[User:JesseAye|JesseAye]] ([[User talk:JesseAye|talk]]) 23:56, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard

2026-01-04T18:05:12Z

JesseAye: /* Incomplete Article Appeal */ new section

<div style="margin: {{#ifeq:{{{navbox|<noinclude>yes</noinclude>}}}|yes|2px}} 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; {{{style|border: 1px solid #A0A5AD;}}} {{{backgroundstyle|background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;}}}">
<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; {{{titlestyle|background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;}}}">Welcome — post issues of interest to Moderators</div>
*Post '''appeals''' to article notice templates (e.g. Incomplete, Stub, etc.)
*Post requests for '''moderator action''' here (e.g. blocks)
*Just need a mod? Post here or ping a mod with a question.
*Post any information or news relevant to the moderation team here.
*To request an article to be created, do not post here, try [[Article suggestions]] instead.
*Do not report technical issues here, please use the [[Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Bugs|Bugs noticeboard]] instead.

<div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 150%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold">[[Special:NewSection/Consumer Rights Wiki talk:Moderators' noticeboard|Start a new section]]</div>
</div>
<br />
{{Archives}} 
==Open tasks==

*[[:Category:Articles with deletion requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles with merge requests]]
*[[:Category:Articles marked as irrelevant]]
*[[Special:NewPages]]

==Idea==

Hello everyone, this is more of a general question than one for mods but the [[Template:StubNotice|Stub template]], [[Template:Incomplete|Incomplete template]], [[Template:ToneWarning|Tone template]] and [[Template:SloppyAI|SloppyAI template]] all have the same layout code (with the box being coloured on the incomplete and sloppyai template being the only exception, but codewise is the same). I'm wondering if people would think it is a good idea if I replicate this code for its own template and replace all the code there with just the template. It would be much easier to work on, but it may be harder to add new special things on without changing the template used by it.

'''TL;DR''' is making a template to use the code used from the stub templates just to make it easier to make new ones or change existing ones okay? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|<i><b>AnotherConsumerRightsPerson</b></i>]] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:07, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

:That could be a good idea, yeah. Honestly if you're comfortable editing that kind of stuff, anything you could do to make the notices smaller and less obtrusive would be appreciated as well. I'm happy to help with text editing and stuff on them but I'm a bit useless if I have to mess around with css [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 14:40, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
::Making them smaller might require a complete restructure for some, but maybe with smaller text it is fine? I'd need to test it out to see if it doesn't make it hard to read. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:10, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Keith|Keith]], just wondering what you think of [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30697 these two variants] of the incomplete tag and if the idea works at all for making them smaller. I haven't changed div tags at all, but it is just a simple thing to make it smaller. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:26, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I think making them smaller will be more to do with reducing their title text size, and maybe boldness, to be less in-your-face (but still obvious. perhaps more like the 'revision as of...' box you can see if you click the link to the variants you just posted [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 00:54, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Ah I don't know much about how to do CSS, and therefore can't do that, but I could just try looking at some resources online to figure it out like how I learned HTML. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:17, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] Had another go at it [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30772 here] and although it definitely isn't perfect, I just want to know what you think of it before I continue. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:50, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::Obviously the spacing needs to come in a bit from the side, but it's certainly closer to what we want! I think changing 'incomplete' to 'verification concerns' or something might make sense (since that's what it's usually used for) [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:32, 20 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Just my 2 cents... I like that it says incomplete and has fields to specify. I find myself using it for things beyond verification, such as how to improve the language, structure, etc. Basically I've been using it as a catch-all, which I know is against what it's intended for, but I've also noticed some users actually commit to those specific changes because it shows how an article could be improved with small efforts.
:::::::I have not been active lately, so I'm not completely certain what improvements @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] has been making to the other templates. But I think going broad could be good, while having input fields for mods or whoever to specify the issues. [[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] ([[User talk:Beanie Bo|talk]]) 19:25, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I haven't made any other changes to templates except for deleting a couple, but I have to agree that the incomplete template is often used for what it isn't meant to be used for, but does make sense why; I thought for a while that it was just for articles that are better than stubs, but still need to be marked. It isn't clear by nature as it currently is on what it does unless you read the read more bit. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:30, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Keith|Keith]] @[[User:Beanie Bo|Beanie Bo]] [https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Sandbox&oldid=30921 The latest one I did] hasn't really done much, but I'd say it is an improvement over the last one. I'm trying to figure out how to make text from the issue params not go right on the border right now, as that really sabotages accessibility. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 20:42, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Tone appeal - Smartwool==

Hi, since the [[Smartwool adds forced arbitration to EULA|Smartwool EULA incident]] is on "Highlighted Article", I would like to ask if there's any more tone issues; and if there are, some guidance/assistance on fixing them. Thank you for your time! [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 04:09, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:After a quick read, tone seems okay, but if you do want to help out, I think expanding it is a great step forward, as it is currently quite small. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 09:12, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::I guess the main thing it's missing are some 'public response' bits going over public/commentator reaction to it happening [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:35, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:::I was tired at the time I posted this, and didn't realize Keith had removed said notice 6 minutes after my edit asking for it, so the pointers are appreciated.
:::I remember searching a bit for public reaction, and mostly got reddit posts pointing back to the Rossmann video. Maybe someday I'll know what search terms to punch into Duckduckgo. [[User:Raster|Raster]] ([[User talk:Raster|talk]]) 15:20, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::::If that is what comes up, it's more likely there are no sources imo and was only talked about by King Louis. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:22, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Approve deletion request==

Regarding my article on Bahnhof, I have all the emails mentioned in the article, and I can share them with you. I also have other direct communications with the CEO (who is also the media contact). I did not mention those in the article to avoid making it personal.

However, I have no idea whether customers are facing the same treatment or just me, and I did not see any media reporting on it, therefore I can not get you a confirmation from a second source.

I published this article as consumer advocacy and to start documenting this company's abuse of their own terms of services.

I am sorry my article did not meet your standards. I could not find how to delete it, so please go ahead and delete it from your site. [[User:Se|Se]] ([[User talk:Se|talk]]) 09:40, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I've deleted it, but just wanted to let you know that if you do find good sources, you're welcome to recreate the article or ask me to undelete it for you to get the version as of when it was deleted. Also, most articles I see get deleted for similar reasons, so you're not alone. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:13, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:I don't think there's any need to delete the article as it is - the content which is currently there is supported by the corren article. I think what @[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] was referring to in their edit notice was specifically the sentence that he removed? [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:14, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::Ok nvm I was getting confused and believed that this was referring to this article: [[Stångåstaden kickbacks and hidden rent]] which also mentions bahnhof [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:15, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
:::having reviewed the actual article this was about, I'd tend to agree with the deletion for now. If @[[User:Se|Se]] can get this story in front of news orgs or major blogs or similar who can confirm it and back it up and who treat it as a story worth publishing, then we can reconsider but for now it's more of a user report, and this wiki is not intended to be the first port of call for reporting things - instead we aim to be a collection of well-documented articles that can hold up to a bit of outside scrutiny. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:21, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

==Notice for mods==

@[[User:Keith|Keith]] @[[User:JakeL|JakeL]] @[[User:UntoK|UntoK]] I've changed lots of links, including the ones in the sidebar, because there seems to be a backend update changing the name for CRW talk pages. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:30, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

:Please change this yourself next time if you don't mind, as it's been a bit of a pain going through the links throughout the last 25 minutes! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:45, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::wait, that shouldn't have happened... The projects namespace was supposed to be a new empty one to use for projects, not a name-change of an existing namespace? I'll talk to Unto about it and see what happened [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:58, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you very much for noticing and making things work again! This seems to have been a bug that caused some cursed mediawiki spaghetti interactions. should hopefully have it resolved shortly, and then we'll revert all changes. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:07, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Should we display a [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] while it's happening? Because I got very confused by this and ended up checking the logs to see if it was accidentally moved here. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:19, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::Ok, Unto's sorted the bug, and I think between us we've un-changed the links. Sorry about all this, and the double reversion on the Incomplete page! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:43, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::It's okay. I've also got some screenshots of me witnessing what's happening, I'll upload them now. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:44, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::How did it affect the Oneplus page GoInfo was working on? that seems doubly weird if it did anything there [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:45, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::They said this just now:
::::::::<blockquote>It complained my "stashed changes" didn't exist, and whenever I went back to the page, those changes appeared again. Had to copy all the changes, discard the edit, and reformat the article again for it to be accepted. Seems all good now. Timing's a Biatch sometimes ay
::::::::</blockquote>
::::::::That seems very unusual. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:47, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Ok, hopefully I think that should just be what happened as a result of an edit being in progress while Unto pushed the change, rather than anything to do with the changes themselves. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:49, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah okay. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 10:49, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::You might not be able to change this, but [[Special:NewPages]] and my watchlist has been completely cleared. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:00, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::Having a look, it looks like watchlist and also the [[Special:RecentChanges]] are cut off as of two days ago. Also the NewUserMessage actions are showing up there despite the human(not bot) filter being auto-enabled. I have no idea why this might be the case but I'll pass it on to unto [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:11, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Also did you get what you wanted to do done? Or did you not get the project namespace finished? Doesn't look like it but just curious lol [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:13, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Looks like you did! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 11:17, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::haven't put the projects in the projects namespace yet, will be doing that in the next day or so, but I think things are technically working as they should [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 11:21, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::::::hey there, not sure I'm allowed to post here but here's what happened exactly :
::::::::*created my account
::::::::*created new "product" page for OnePlus AI
::::::::*while creating it, I got kicked out (it said my session was expired). Checked and I was indeed logged out after next reload of the page
::::::::*the product page was created anyway
::::::::*went to edit the product page to add all the descriptions and contents, wrote the whole article in one go
::::::::*when trying to publish, I got "non-existing stashed changes <uuid>" or something similiar, couldn't publish, couldn't go to "edit source".
::::::::*logged out, back in, the page was still empty
::::::::*when I went back to the "edit" page, the wiki page re-added my last changes and I basically lost no work on it
::::::::*still couldn't publish for the same error
::::::::*what I had to do was copy the whole contents, cancel the edit, go back to the product page and create a new edit (it asked if I wanted to discard my previous changes or keep them, I discarded), re-formatted the whole article, and it was then golden
::::::::I'm assuming my edit session got deleted on the server-side somehow but was still existing on my client-side and it got desynced that way. Don't think there's much you need to do regarding that issue, but if you're working on the backend, I would freeze all edits to avoid that in the future [[User:GOinfo|GOinfo]] ([[User talk:GOinfo|talk]]) 11:36, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, apologies for this - I think it got caught in the middle of a hotfix. Im the one who's to blame here because I asked Unto to 'just add a feature quickly for me, don't wait for the next patch to be ready'. I'll try to refrain from this in future unless it's properly urgent! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:34, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

==Appeal: GMS==

([[Google Mobile Services]]). I made the page because GMS is a powerful "card" that google uses to preserve (and grow) its monopoly. They incentivize Android app developers to depend on google-libraries and APIs. Pretty much every app on Play-Store depends so much on Play-Services that they refuse to do any basic tasks (discord and whatsapp are examples, last time I checked). I believe GMS doesn't get enough attention, and google wants it to stay that way.

However, I do agree that the article is very anemic in its current state. But I thought it was a good idea to centralize all knowledge about GMS, so that its relationships can be shown in a link-graph ("What Links Here", and similar stuff) [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 05:15, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

:I've appended the deletion notice with something saying 'don't delete yet, we're discussing it here'. I think if you can find/add one or two non-wikipedia sources that discuss it being an issue, that would be sufficient to keep it as a stub and get rid of the deletion notice. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 12:39, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::Status update @[[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]]? [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:29, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

==Is youtube still a stub?==

[[YouTube|This]] doesn't look like a stub to me [[User:Rudxain|Rudxain]] ([[User talk:Rudxain|talk]]) 05:18, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

:Removed stubnotice! [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 07:33, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

==Quiz==

Hello, I've been working on this quiz of scope over time for a while [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson/Quiz|here]]. I want to get input on how I could make this better as currently it is okay but not completely accurate yet and needs some more checking. Ideally this would be a part of the CRW namespace that helps people understand scope easier, but I'm just not quite there yet. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:46, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

:I guess it probably needs to assess notability as well as scope, and we need to decide where that line goes for the creation of an article (e.g. for forced arbitration, do we need one secondary source to have talked about the forced arbitration in order for it to be notable enough for its own article and not just a mention on the company page?) [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:55, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
::I guess it would need a mention outside of the company page or it might be considered original research. I was thinking about that when I made this, my first idea was just to have the company page but I switched to thinking that a random Reddit post would confirm that it has been talked about and therefore can be added. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 06:48, 7 December 2025 (UTC)

==Filter change==

I've changed [[Special:AbuseFilter/4|filter 4]] to stop it affecting userspace. If there are issues, feel free to revert. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:42, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

:Sounds good to me. Thanks for the catch. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 22:36, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

==Projects namespace is gone==

Hello, I assume this is on purpose but just in case: The projects namespace has been removed entirely. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 19:39, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

:very likely not on purpose, I'll talk to unto [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 09:51, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|AnotherConsumerRightsPerson]] should be resolved now! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 10:02, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
:::Project Talk pages are still broken with the naming, but work fine otherwise. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 18:33, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
::::I’m not seeing any issue. Are you still encountering this? - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 19:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::No, it's fixed now. It seems to have been only temporary. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 21:08, 23 December 2025 (UTC)

==Redirect Request==

In Louis' most recent video on Flock, he linked an article in the description which is incomplete. I think he meant to link [[Common Questions, Arguments, & Responses when discussing Flock Surveillance]] instead of [[Common Questions]], which seems to have been created after the video was posted. The title "Common Questions" doesn't even make sense for the content of the article.

Request: move/merge/delete the second article and redirect its name to the first article, or get Louis to change the video description. [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 10:39, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

:just realized i have permissions to do this so i went ahead and moved the second article and created a redirect, the conflicting article is now here [[Flock arguments]] [[User:Bythmusters|Bythmusters]] ([[User talk:Bythmusters|talk]]) 10:44, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

==Cloudflare trackers are on this site?==

I decided to open the DuckDuckGo privacy essentials extension on this site, expecting to see no trackers at all, but I saw Cloudflare load tracking requests. Can we remove this if possible please? [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 15:14, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

:I'll flag down Keith and the tech team so someone can look into this for you. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 20:45, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

==some template inconstancies==

whilst editing some pages I found a few "oversights" with these templates. [[Template_talk:IndividualPage]] [[Template_talk:ProductLinePreload]] [[Template_talk:ProductCargo]] [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 16:04, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

:Protected ProductLinePreload, marked InduvidualPage as historical, I might need JakeL or Unto to look at ProductCargo as it uses something that I have no clue how to approach and I could very easily make breaking changes. [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 16:48, 4 January 2026 (UTC)
::can we update [[Template:IndividualPage]]? I was editing [[Mark Zuckerberg]] yesterday and w/o an infobox it felt like smth was missing [[User:SinexTitan|SinexTitan]] ([[User talk:SinexTitan|talk]]) 17:10, 4 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Individual page is unused I'm pretty sure, so no action needed there [[User:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|'''''AnotherConsumerRightsPerson''''']] ([[User talk:AnotherConsumerRightsPerson|talk]]) 17:17, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

== Incomplete Article Appeal ==

[[BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data]]

References have been updated to be more aligned with the [[Template:Cite web]] template. [[User:JesseAye|JesseAye]] ([[User talk:JesseAye|talk]]) 18:05, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data

2026-01-04T05:43:34Z

JesseAye: Includes solution to the incident; Fixes minor blockquote formatting; Fixes url of a citation

{{Incomplete|Issue 1=Needs to use more fields from the [[Template:Cite web]] template}}
{{IncidentCargo
|Company=BlueDriver, Repairify, Root Four Imagination, Lemur Vehicle Monitors
|StartDate=2025-04-25
|Status=Resolved
|ProductLine=BlueDriver
|Product=BlueDriver OBDII Scan Tool
|ArticleType=Product
|Type=Cloud lockout, Forced Migration, Privacy
|Description=iOS and Android apps required login for any functionality
|EndDate=2025-10-14}}

An update to BlueDriver OBD2 scan tool's iOS and Android apps required the user create and use an account for any functionality at all<ref name=":0" />. This is in direct contrast to how the app functioned prior, which did not restrict any (let alone all) functionality behind account registration.

==Background==
BlueDriver is an OBD2 scan tool that connects via Bluetooth to an iOS and Android app, to read and clear a car's error codes (check engine light) and view diagnostic data<ref>{{Cite web |title=BlueDriver Bluetooth OBD2 Scan Tool and Code Reader |url=https://us.bluedriver.com/products/bluedriver-scan-tool |url-status=live |website=BlueDriver}}</ref>. The BlueDriver device is advertised as being able to work without an internet connection<ref>{{Cite web |date=2020-01-08 |title=Do I need an Internet Connection? |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551764-do-i-need-an-internet-connection- |url-status=live |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The app could previously be set up and used without any login, so a user's data would be stored only on their device<ref name=":1" />.

In 2023 the BlueDriver company (aka Root Four Imagination Inc, or Lemur Vehicle Monitors) was acquired by Repairify who also sell other automotive products, which itself is a portfolio company of Kinderhook Industries, LLC, a private investment firm <ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-01-13 |title=asTech Acquires BlueDriver |url=https://www.astech.com/blogs/news/astech-acquires-bluedriver |url-status=live |access-date=2026-01-04 |website=asTech}}</ref>.

==Incident==
[[File:Screenshot of BlueDriver app.jpg|alt=Screenshot of BlueDriver app, showing the requirement to register and log in|thumb|Screenshot of BlueDriver app, showing the requirement to register and log in]]Users of the iOS app since the 8.0 release in April 2025 are now given the following message:<blockquote>As of release 8.0, BlueDriver is requiring users to have accounts to use the BlueDriver product.</blockquote>Users cannot access the app's functions until they register and log into an account, and agree to store data on the company's servers<ref name=":0" />. Also, [[BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data#Consumer response|some users]] reported that they were in a situation where they could not access the internet when they first opened this version of the app, leaving them unable to diagnose their vehicle's problem. The BlueDriver support page<ref name=":0" /> acknowledges this issue:<blockquote>You’ll only need an internet connection when you first create and log into your BlueDriver account. After that, you can scan your vehicle and view code info without being online.</blockquote>

===BlueDriver's response===

The company claims that the change "helps keep your data safe" and "prevents unauthorized access"<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=2025-07-08 |title=Why We Introduced Account Sign-In for the BlueDriver App |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-why-we-introduced-account-sign-in-for-the-bluedriver-app |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250806213706/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-why-we-introduced-account-sign-in-for-the-bluedriver-app |archive-date=2025-08-06 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The company does not mention that the data was previously only stored on the users' device and could only be accessed by someone able to unlock the device. The company does state that once the data is stored on the company's servers, they have access to that data:<blockquote>we don’t have access to your full scan history or reports unless you have an account</blockquote>

===Timeline===

*2021: Released iOS app version 7.11, which added the optional ability to register and log in to an account to store data on their servers. The app still worked without logging in.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-03-19 |title=What is a BlueDriver Account? |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-what-is-a-bluedriver-account- |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240424221950/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-what-is-a-bluedriver-account- |archive-date=2024-04-24 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The version update note read<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |title=‎BlueDriver OBD2 Scan Tool App - App Store |url=https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluedriver-obd2-scan-tool/id445403397 |url-status=live |website=App Store}}</ref>:
<blockquote>Now sync your vehicle scans across your devices by signing up for an (optional) account</blockquote>
*April 25, 2025: iOS app version 8.0 released, adding the requirement to log in<ref name=":0" />. The release note did not mention this change, instead just mentioned "General Performance Enhancements"<ref name=":2" />.
*April 28, 2025: iOS app setup instructions changed to say that there is now a mandatory step to log in (original<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |date=2020-12-17 |title=Setup - iPhone & iPad (Archived 2025-04-26) |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250426173411/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |archive-date=2025-04-26 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref> vs updated<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-04-28 |title=Setup - iPhone & iPad (Archived 2025-08-06) |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250806210340/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |archive-date=2025-08-06 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref> help page).
*October 14, 2025: iOS app version 8.4 released<ref name=":2" />, introducing a "Continue as guest" option when launching the app<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-10-23 |title=BlueDriver Account Creation and Data FAQ |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000765996-bluedriver-account-creation-and-data-faq |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251111105518/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000765996-bluedriver-account-creation-and-data-faq |archive-date=2025-11-11 |access-date=2026-01-04 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>, marking this incident as solved.

==Consumer response==

Hundreds of customers posted Apple App Store<ref name=":2" /> and Amazon reviews<ref>{{Cite web |title=Amazon.com: Customer reviews: BlueDriver Bluetooth Pro OBDII Scan Tool for iPhone & Android - No Subscription Fee - OBD2 Car Scanner and Code Reader - Diagnose Check Engine, ABS, SRS, Airbag & 7000+ Issues on Vehicles 1996+ |url=https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00652G4TS?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews |url-status=live |website=Amazon}}</ref> about the change. Some users reported that they were in a situation where they could not access the internet when they first opened the new version of the BlueDriver app, leaving them unable to diagnose their vehicle's problem. Other users expressed data privacy concerns. Some examples:<blockquote>I have two of these Bluetooth Pro OBDII Scan Tool, first one purchased in 12-2017 the second 10-2024. I loved them until early this morning. I had a check engine light on my 2007 Tahoe illuminate. When I started the BlueDriver app on my phone, I got an error message that said I needed to setup a login account before using it. I was way out of cell service range. I NEVER needed internet access before, that was a key feature for me. My only choice was to drive the 12 miles to where I could get cell service, risking possible catastrophic engine or power train failure. When I finally had cell service, I went through the process of creating a login and could not complete the final step as I did not receive the email with the verification code even after multiple attempts. I can no longer trust that this tool I paid for will work for me any more. I can afford to have a tool require internet access for it to work. My recommendation is DON'T BUY. I am now looking for a replacement scanner that won't leave me stranded again.</blockquote><blockquote>While this item worked fine for a long time, they have now started requiring internet connections, locations (GPS), and logins to be able to use their software/product. This was never needed before and I have never agreed to this change. I do not want to be involved with a data harvesting/selling organization. Since the only app that can use their hardware is proprietary, there are no other options for alternate apps available. They have effectively stolen the product's usability from everyone. Since they are refusing refunds because of this change, I will be contacting my state's attorney general to see what we can do about either forcing them to roll back the changes or getting refunds. Even IF they weren't selling this information to insurance companies, and whoever else, its still a potential security nightmare.</blockquote>

==Privacy Policy==
The company's privacy policy has several sections that are relevant to the data now being stored on their servers<ref>{{Cite web |title=Privacy Policy – BlueDriver |url=https://us.bluedriver.com/pages/privacy-policy |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251114093014/https://us.bluedriver.com/pages/privacy-policy |archive-date=2025-11-14 |website=BlueDriver}}</ref>:<blockquote>Root Four may change all or part of this Privacy Policy from time to time. An up-to-date version of our Privacy Policy will be posted on www.bluedriver.com and can be found under the “Settings” section of our apps. Your continued use of any of our apps, devices, software, websites or other services after the date of any such revision or replacement constitutes your consent to our collection, use and disclosure of your personal information in accordance with the revised or replaced Privacy Policy.</blockquote><blockquote>Vehicle Information – When you use certain of our devices and apps (including our BlueDriver® device and app), we may collect and retain information from the vehicle's onboard computer such as its vehicle identification number (VIN), diagnostic trouble codes, and other vehicle system data including records of the vehicle’s behavior right before the problem started. All of this information helps us to determine what might be wrong with your vehicle – so that we can help get you on the road again faster.</blockquote><blockquote>When vehicle information is linked to an identifiable User or a specific VIN, we consider this information as your personal information subject to the protections set forth in this Privacy Policy. When vehicle information is anonymized and aggregated so that it cannot be linked to an identifiable User or specific VIN, we treat this information as non-personal information (see below under “Anonymized and Aggregated Data”).</blockquote><blockquote>Business Partners and Solution Providers – With your express consent (and only with your express consent), we may provide your personal information to trusted business partners and solution providers that work with us to provide you with additional or enhanced products and services.</blockquote><blockquote>Third Party Offers – We may present you with offers from trusted third parties to provide an offer or solution to you that may enhance your ownership or driving experience. If we present you with such offers or solutions, it will be on an “opt-in” basis only.</blockquote><blockquote>Business Transitions – If we are involved in a reorganization, merger, or the actual or prospective sale of our business or company (or a unit or division) we may disclose personal information to the relevant third party as part of the transaction. In that event, we will ensure that your personal information remains protected in accordance with the principles set out in this Privacy Policy.</blockquote><blockquote>We may anonymize and aggregate the data we collect across many users, including vehicle information, and may provide this anonymized, aggregated data to third parties. Such data will not identify you or be able to identify you personally and, specifically, this anonymized and aggregated information will never include your specific vehicle identification number (VIN).</blockquote><blockquote>Our websites, products, applications, and services may contain links to third-party websites, products, and services. Our products and services may also use or offer products or services from third parties, such as vehicle repair reports. The information collected by third parties, including location data or contact details, is governed by their privacy policies. Root Four is not responsible for these third-party websites, products or services and encourages you to review the privacy policies of such third party web sites, products and services to understand their information practices.</blockquote>

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:BlueDriver]]

BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data

2026-01-04T05:31:47Z

JesseAye: Better conform references to Cite web template; Revise introduction block

{{Incomplete|Issue 1=Needs to use more fields from the [[Template:Cite web]] template}}
{{IncidentCargo
|Company=BlueDriver, Repairify, Root Four Imagination, Lemur Vehicle Monitors
|StartDate=2025-04-25
|Status=Resolved
|ProductLine=BlueDriver
|Product=BlueDriver OBDII Scan Tool
|ArticleType=Product
|Type=Cloud lockout, Forced Migration, Privacy
|Description=iOS and Android apps required login for any functionality
|EndDate=2025-10-14}}

An update to BlueDriver OBD2 scan tool's iOS and Android apps required the user create and use an account for any functionality at all<ref name=":0" />. This is in direct contrast to how the app functioned prior, which did not restrict any (let alone all) functionality behind account registration.

==Background==
BlueDriver is an OBD2 scan tool that connects via Bluetooth to an iOS and Android app, to read and clear a car's error codes (check engine light) and view diagnostic data<ref>{{Cite web |title=BlueDriver Bluetooth OBD2 Scan Tool and Code Reader |url=https://us.bluedriver.com/products/bluedriver-scan-tool |url-status=live |website=BlueDriver}}</ref>. The BlueDriver device is advertised as being able to work without an internet connection<ref>{{Cite web |date=2020-01-08 |title=Do I need an Internet Connection? |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551764-do-i-need-an-internet-connection- |url-status=live |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The app could previously be set up and used without any login, so a user's data would be stored only on their device<ref name=":1" />.

In 2023 the BlueDriver company (aka Root Four Imagination Inc, or Lemur Vehicle Monitors) was acquired by Repairify who also sell other automotive products, which itself is a portfolio company of Kinderhook Industries, LLC, a private investment firm <ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-01-13 |title=asTech Acquires BlueDriver |url=https://www.astech.com/blogs/news/astech-acquires-bluedriver |url-status=live |access-date=2026-01-04 |website=asTech}}</ref>.

==Incident==
[[File:Screenshot of BlueDriver app.jpg|alt=Screenshot of BlueDriver app, showing the requirement to register and log in|thumb|Screenshot of BlueDriver app, showing the requirement to register and log in]]Users of the iOS app since the 8.0 release in April 2025 are now given the following message:<blockquote>As of release 8.0, BlueDriver is requiring users to have accounts to use the BlueDriver product.</blockquote>Users cannot access the app's functions until they register and log into an account, and agree to store data on the company's servers<ref name=":0" />. Also, [[BlueDriver OBD2 scanner now requires account login and collects data#Consumer response|some users]] reported that they were in a situation where they could not access the internet when they first opened this version of the app, leaving them unable to diagnose their vehicle's problem. The BlueDriver support page<ref name=":0" /> acknowledges this issue:<blockquote>You’ll only need an internet connection when you first create and log into your BlueDriver account. After that, you can scan your vehicle and view code info without being online.</blockquote>

===BlueDriver's response===

The company claims that the change "helps keep your data safe" and "prevents unauthorized access"<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=2025-07-08 |title=Why We Introduced Account Sign-In for the BlueDriver App |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-why-we-introduced-account-sign-in-for-the-bluedriver-app |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250806213706/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-why-we-introduced-account-sign-in-for-the-bluedriver-app |archive-date=2025-08-06 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The company does not mention that the data was previously only stored on the users' device and could only be accessed by someone able to unlock the device. The company does state that once the data is stored on the company's servers, they have access to that data:<blockquote>we don’t have access to your full scan history or reports unless you have an account</blockquote>

===Timeline===

*2021: Released iOS app version 7.11, which added the optional ability to register and log in to an account to store data on their servers. The app still worked without logging in.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2024-03-19 |title=What is a BlueDriver Account? |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240424221950/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-what-is-a-bluedriver-account- |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240424221950/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000724224-what-is-a-bluedriver-account- |archive-date=2024-04-24 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref>. The version update note read<ref name=":2">{{Cite web |title=‎BlueDriver OBD2 Scan Tool App - App Store |url=https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluedriver-obd2-scan-tool/id445403397 |url-status=live |website=App Store}}</ref>:
<blockquote>Now sync your vehicle scans across your devices by signing up for an (optional) account</blockquote>
*April 25, 2025: iOS app version 8.0 released, adding the requirement to log in<ref name=":0" />. The release note did not mention this change, instead just mentioned "General Performance Enhancements"<ref name=":2" />.
*April 28, 2025: iOS app setup instructions changed to say that there is now a mandatory step to log in (original<ref name=":1">{{Cite web |date=2020-12-17 |title=Setup - iPhone & iPad (Archived 2025-04-26) |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250426173411/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |archive-date=2025-04-26 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref> vs updated<ref>{{Cite web |date=2025-04-28 |title=Setup - iPhone & iPad (Archived 2025-08-06) |url=https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20250806210340/https://support.bluedriver.com/support/solutions/articles/43000551738-setup-iphone-ipad |archive-date=2025-08-06 |website=BlueDriver Support}}</ref> help page).

==Consumer response==

Hundreds of customers posted Apple App Store<ref name=":2" /> and Amazon reviews<ref>{{Cite web |title=Amazon.com: Customer reviews: BlueDriver Bluetooth Pro OBDII Scan Tool for iPhone & Android - No Subscription Fee - OBD2 Car Scanner and Code Reader - Diagnose Check Engine, ABS, SRS, Airbag & 7000+ Issues on Vehicles 1996+ |url=https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00652G4TS?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews |url-status=live |website=Amazon}}</ref> about the change. Some users reported that they were in a situation where they could not access the internet when they first opened the new version of the BlueDriver app, leaving them unable to diagnose their vehicle's problem. Other users expressed data privacy concerns. Some examples:<blockquote>I have two of these Bluetooth Pro OBDII Scan Tool, first one purchased in 12-2017 the second 10-2024. I loved them until early this morning. I had a check engine light on my 2007 Tahoe illuminate. When I started the BlueDriver app on my phone, I got an error message that said I needed to setup a login account before using it. I was way out of cell service range. I NEVER needed internet access before, that was a key feature for me. My only choice was to drive the 12 miles to where I could get cell service, risking possible catastrophic engine or power train failure. When I finally had cell service, I went through the process of creating a login and could not complete the final step as I did not receive the email with the verification code even after multiple attempts. I can no longer trust that this tool I paid for will work for me any more. I can afford to have a tool require internet access for it to work. My recommendation is DON'T BUY. I am now looking for a replacement scanner that won't leave me stranded again.</blockquote><blockquote>While this item worked fine for a long time, they have now started requiring internet connections, locations (GPS), and logins to be able to use their software/product. This was never needed before and I have never agreed to this change. I do not want to be involved with a data harvesting/selling organization. Since the only app that can use their hardware is proprietary, there are no other options for alternate apps available. They have effectively stolen the product's usability from everyone. Since they are refusing refunds because of this change, I will be contacting my state's attorney general to see what we can do about either forcing them to roll back the changes or getting refunds. Even IF they weren't selling this information to insurance companies, and whoever else, its still a potential security nightmare.</blockquote>

==Privacy Policy==
The company's privacy policy has several sections that are relevant to the data now being stored on their servers<ref>{{Cite web |title=Privacy Policy – BlueDriver |url=https://us.bluedriver.com/pages/privacy-policy |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20251114093014/https://us.bluedriver.com/pages/privacy-policy |archive-date=2025-11-14 |website=BlueDriver}}</ref>:<blockquote>Root Four may change all or part of this Privacy Policy from time to time. An up-to-date version of our Privacy Policy will be posted on www.bluedriver.com and can be found under the “Settings” section of our apps. Your continued use of any of our apps, devices, software, websites or other services after the date of any such revision or replacement constitutes your consent to our collection, use and disclosure of your personal information in accordance with the revised or replaced Privacy Policy.</blockquote><blockquote>Vehicle Information – When you use certain of our devices and apps (including our BlueDriver® device and app), we may collect and retain information from the vehicle's onboard computer such as its vehicle identification number (VIN), diagnostic trouble codes, and other vehicle system data including records of the vehicle’s behavior right before the problem started. All of this information helps us to determine what might be wrong with your vehicle – so that we can help get you on the road again faster.

When vehicle information is linked to an identifiable User or a specific VIN, we consider this information as your personal information subject to the protections set forth in this Privacy Policy. When vehicle information is anonymized and aggregated so that it cannot be linked to an identifiable User or specific VIN, we treat this information as non-personal information (see below under “Anonymized and Aggregated Data”).</blockquote><blockquote>Business Partners and Solution Providers – With your express consent (and only with your express consent), we may provide your personal information to trusted business partners and solution providers that work with us to provide you with additional or enhanced products and services.

Third Party Offers – We may present you with offers from trusted third parties to provide an offer or solution to you that may enhance your ownership or driving experience. If we present you with such offers or solutions, it will be on an “opt-in” basis only.</blockquote><blockquote>Business Transitions – If we are involved in a reorganization, merger, or the actual or prospective sale of our business or company (or a unit or division) we may disclose personal information to the relevant third party as part of the transaction. In that event, we will ensure that your personal information remains protected in accordance with the principles set out in this Privacy Policy.</blockquote><blockquote>We may anonymize and aggregate the data we collect across many users, including vehicle information, and may provide this anonymized, aggregated data to third parties. Such data will not identify you or be able to identify you personally and, specifically, this anonymized and aggregated information will never include your specific vehicle identification number (VIN).</blockquote><blockquote>Our websites, products, applications, and services may contain links to third-party websites, products, and services. Our products and services may also use or offer products or services from third parties, such as vehicle repair reports. The information collected by third parties, including location data or contact details, is governed by their privacy policies. Root Four is not responsible for these third-party websites, products or services and encourages you to review the privacy policies of such third party web sites, products and services to understand their information practices.</blockquote>

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:BlueDriver]]