Minecraft LAN gameplay paywall - Revision history

Tempo123: Archive

2026-04-05T20:16:25Z

Im8685: Abbreviation of LAN

2026-03-01T09:15:15Z

Abbreviation of LAN

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:15, 1 March 2026
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	\|Type=Digital restrictions		\|Type=Digital restrictions
	\|Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns.		\|Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns.
	}}In early 2025, some [[Xbox]] players discovered that [[Minecraft\|Minecraft’s]] ~~local~~ LAN multiplayer, previously available to anyone who had purchased the game, now required an active Xbox Game Pass subscription.		}}In early 2025, some [[Xbox]] players discovered that [[Minecraft\|Minecraft’s]] <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> multiplayer, previously available to anyone who had purchased the game, now required an active Xbox Game Pass subscription.

	==Background==		==Background==
	Minecraft, developed by Mojang Studios and acquired by Microsoft in 2014, is one of the best-selling video games of all time. Since its release on Xbox consoles, the game has offered several multiplayer options, including online play through Xbox Live and offline Local Area Network (LAN) play.		Minecraft, developed by Mojang Studios and acquired by Microsoft in 2014, is one of the best-selling video games of all time. Since its release on Xbox consoles, the game has offered several multiplayer options, including online play through Xbox Live and offline <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> play.

	LAN functionality has historically been considered a core feature, allowing households to play together without requiring additional subscriptions. On Xbox platforms, Minecraft is sold as a standalone title but is also included with Xbox Game Pass, Microsoft’s subscription service that grants access to a rotating library of games.		<abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> functionality has historically been considered a core feature, allowing households to play together without requiring additional subscriptions. On Xbox platforms, Minecraft is sold as a standalone title but is also included with Xbox Game Pass, Microsoft’s subscription service that grants access to a rotating library of games.

	This overlap between ownership and subscription access has previously caused confusion, but until 2025, LAN play remained accessible to all players who had purchased the game outright.		This overlap between ownership and subscription access has previously caused confusion, but until 2025, <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> play remained accessible to all players who had purchased the game outright.

	==LAN multiplayer paywall==		==LAN multiplayer paywall==
	In February 2025, Xbox players began reporting that Minecraft’s [[Local Area Network~~]] (~~LAN) multiplayer no longer functioned unless the account owner held an active Xbox Game Pass subscription. Previously, LAN sessions were available to all players who had purchased the game, independent of subscription status.		In February 2025, Xbox players began reporting that Minecraft’s <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> multiplayer no longer functioned unless the account owner held an active Xbox Game Pass subscription. Previously, <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> sessions were available to all players who had purchased the game, independent of subscription status.

	Reports surfaced on Mojang’s official bug tracker and in Xbox support forums, where users documented being unable to connect to local games without Game Pass. Despite community workarounds, the issue spread widely after a game update, raising concerns about the removal of a long-standing feature.		Reports surfaced on Mojang’s official bug tracker and in Xbox support forums, where users documented being unable to connect to local games without Game Pass. Despite community workarounds, the issue spread widely after a game update, raising concerns about the removal of a long-standing feature.
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	===Mojang's response===		===Mojang's response===

	Mojang support staff responded to bug tracker reports by stating that LAN was not intentionally gated behind Game Pass and attributed the issue to a “technical problem.” As of March 2025, no official patch or clarification has been issued that restores universal LAN access on Xbox, leaving many players without a clear resolution.		Mojang support staff responded to bug tracker reports by stating that <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> was not intentionally gated behind Game Pass and attributed the issue to a “technical problem.” As of March 2025, no official patch or clarification has been issued that restores universal <abbr title="Local Area Network">LAN</abbr> access on Xbox, leaving many players without a clear resolution.
	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

Bananabot: Added archive URLs for 1 citation(s) using CRWCitationBot

2026-02-23T06:19:25Z

Added archive URLs for 1 citation(s) using CRWCitationBot

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:19, 23 February 2026
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	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|url-status=usurped \|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|url-status=usurped \|work=Minecraft Feedback \|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20251001194415/https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass \|archive-date=1 Oct 2025}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.

Im8685 at 07:51, 11 January 2026

2026-01-11T07:51:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:51, 11 January 2026
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	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|url-status=usurped \|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.

AnotherConsumerRightsPerson: Fixed ref,

2025-10-10T08:58:49Z

Fixed ref,

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:58, 10 October 2025
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	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author=~~Registered User~~ \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass?\|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.

Mr Pollo: updated references

2025-09-27T00:43:18Z

updated references

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:43, 27 September 2025
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			{{Incomplete\|Issue 1=needs more references (primarily from trusted publications)}}
	{{IncidentCargo		{{IncidentCargo
	\|Company=Microsoft, Mojang		\|Company=Microsoft, Mojang
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	This overlap between ownership and subscription access has previously caused confusion, but until 2025, LAN play remained accessible to all players who had purchased the game outright.		This overlap between ownership and subscription access has previously caused confusion, but until 2025, LAN play remained accessible to all players who had purchased the game outright.

	==~~[Incident]~~==		==LAN multiplayer paywall==
	In February 2025, Xbox players began reporting that Minecraft’s [[Local Area Network]] (LAN) multiplayer no longer functioned unless the account owner held an active Xbox Game Pass subscription. Previously, LAN sessions were available to all players who had purchased the game, independent of subscription status.		In February 2025, Xbox players began reporting that Minecraft’s [[Local Area Network]] (LAN) multiplayer no longer functioned unless the account owner held an active Xbox Game Pass subscription. Previously, LAN sessions were available to all players who had purchased the game, independent of subscription status.

	Reports surfaced on Mojang’s official bug tracker and in Xbox support forums, where users documented being unable to connect to local games without Game Pass. Despite community workarounds, the issue spread widely after a game update, raising concerns about the removal of a long-standing feature.		Reports surfaced on Mojang’s official bug tracker and in Xbox support forums, where users documented being unable to connect to local games without Game Pass. Despite community workarounds, the issue spread widely after a game update, raising concerns about the removal of a long-standing feature.

	===~~[Company]~~'s response===		===Mojang's response===

	Mojang support staff responded to bug tracker reports by stating that LAN was not intentionally gated behind Game Pass and attributed the issue to a “technical problem.” As of March 2025, no official patch or clarification has been issued that restores universal LAN access on Xbox, leaving many players without a clear resolution.		Mojang support staff responded to bug tracker reports by stating that LAN was not intentionally gated behind Game Pass and attributed the issue to a “technical problem.” As of March 2025, no official patch or clarification has been issued that restores universal LAN access on Xbox, leaving many players without a clear resolution.
	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|~~last= \|first~~=Registered User \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass?}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|~~first~~=~~Reddit user~~ \|date=2025 \|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|~~website~~=~~reddit~~}}</ref>		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author=Registered User \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass?\|work=Minecraft Feedback}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|work=Reddit\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.
	==References==		==References==
	<references />		<references />
			[[Category:Minecraft]]

Hiro: remove template

2025-09-26T19:41:32Z

remove template

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:41, 26 September 2025
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	==References==		==References==
	<references />		<references />
	~~{{Ph-I-C}}~~

Hiro: /* References */

2025-09-26T19:38:52Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:38, 26 September 2025
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	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across [https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? ~~forums] and [~~https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? ~~Reddit] . Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust.~~		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|last= \|first=Registered User \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass?}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|first=Reddit user \|date=2025 \|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|website=reddit}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.
	==References==		==References==
	~~{{reflist}}~~		<references />

	{{Ph-I-C}}		{{Ph-I-C}}

Hiro at 19:26, 26 September 2025

2025-09-26T19:26:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:26, 26 September 2025
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	\|Type=Digital restrictions		\|Type=Digital restrictions
	\|Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns.		\|Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns.
	}}		}}In early 2025, some [[Xbox]] players discovered that [[Minecraft\|Minecraft’s]] local LAN multiplayer, previously available to anyone who had purchased the game, now required an active Xbox Game Pass subscription.
	~~{{Ph-I-Int}}~~
	==Background==		==Background==
	~~{{Ph~~-~~I-B}}~~		Minecraft, developed by Mojang Studios and acquired by Microsoft in 2014, is one of the best-selling video games of all time. Since its release on Xbox consoles, the game has offered several multiplayer options, including online play through Xbox Live and offline Local Area Network (LAN) play.

	~~==[Incident]==~~		LAN functionality has historically been considered a core feature, allowing households to play together without requiring additional subscriptions. On Xbox platforms, Minecraft is sold as a standalone title but is also included with Xbox Game Pass, Microsoft’s subscription service that grants access to a rotating library of games.
	~~{{Ph-I-I}}~~

	~~===[Company]'s response===~~		This overlap between ownership and subscription access has previously caused confusion, but until 2025, LAN play remained accessible to all players who had purchased the game outright.
	~~{{Ph-I-ComR}}~~

			==[Incident]==
			In February 2025, Xbox players began reporting that Minecraft’s [[Local Area Network]] (LAN) multiplayer no longer functioned unless the account owner held an active Xbox Game Pass subscription. Previously, LAN sessions were available to all players who had purchased the game, independent of subscription status.

	~~==Lawsuit==~~		Reports surfaced on Mojang’s official bug tracker and in Xbox support forums, where users documented being unable to connect to local games without Game Pass. Despite community workarounds, the issue spread widely after a game update, raising concerns about the removal of a long-standing feature.
	~~{{Ph~~-~~I-L}}~~

			===[Company]'s response===

			Mojang support staff responded to bug tracker reports by stating that LAN was not intentionally gated behind Game Pass and attributed the issue to a “technical problem.” As of March 2025, no official patch or clarification has been issued that restores universal LAN access on Xbox, leaving many players without a clear resolution.
	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==
	~~{{Ph-I-ConR}}~~

			The change triggered strong backlash across [https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? forums] and [https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? Reddit] . Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust.

			Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.
	==References==		==References==
	{{reflist}}		{{reflist}}

	{{Ph-I-C}}		{{Ph-I-C}}

Hiro: Created page with "{{IncidentCargo |Company=Microsoft, Mojang |StartDate=2025 |EndDate=2025 |Status=Active |ProductLine=Minecraft, Game Pass Core |Product=Minecraft, xbox |ArticleType=Service |Type=Digital restrictions |Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns. }} {{Ph-I-Int}} ==Background== {{Ph-I-B}} ==[Incident]== {{Ph-I-I}} ===[Company]'s response=== {{Ph-I-ComR}} ==Lawsuit==..."

2025-09-26T17:40:59Z

Created page with "{{IncidentCargo |Company=Microsoft, Mojang |StartDate=2025 |EndDate=2025 |Status=Active |ProductLine=Minecraft, Game Pass Core |Product=Minecraft, xbox |ArticleType=Service |Type=Digital restrictions |Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns. }} {{Ph-I-Int}} ==Background== {{Ph-I-B}} ==[Incident]== {{Ph-I-I}} ===[Company]'s response=== {{Ph-I-ComR}} ==Lawsuit==..."

New page

{{IncidentCargo
|Company=Microsoft, Mojang
|StartDate=2025
|EndDate=2025
|Status=Active
|ProductLine=Minecraft, Game Pass Core
|Product=Minecraft, xbox
|ArticleType=Service
|Type=Digital restrictions
|Description=Minecraft on Xbox now blocks LAN play behind Game Pass, stripping a paid feature and sparking major consumer rights concerns.
}}
{{Ph-I-Int}}
==Background==
{{Ph-I-B}}

==[Incident]==
{{Ph-I-I}}

===[Company]'s response===
{{Ph-I-ComR}}

==Lawsuit==
{{Ph-I-L}}

==Consumer response==
{{Ph-I-ConR}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{Ph-I-C}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:16, 5 April 2026
Line 29:		Line 29:
	==Consumer response==		==Consumer response==

	The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|url-status=usurped \|work=Minecraft Feedback \|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20251001194415/https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass \|archive-date=1 Oct 2025}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29\|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|~~work~~=~~Reddit~~\|access-date=2025-09-26}}</ref>		The change triggered strong backlash across forums. Many players argued that removing or restricting a feature that was present at the time of purchase amounted to deceptive practices and a breach of consumer trust. <ref>{{Cite web \|author= \|date=2025-05-27 \|title=LAN and Gamepass \|url=https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass? \|url-status=usurped \|work=Minecraft Feedback \|archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/20251001194415/https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/36923769821069-LAN-and-Gamepass \|archive-date=1 Oct 2025}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web \|author=u/Status_Horror7976 \|date=2025-03-29 \|title=Lan locked on Xbox without game pass now \|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/? \|url-status=live \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20260405201222/https://old.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1jmmcfu/lan_locked_on_xbox_without_game_pass_now/ \|archive-date=5 Apr 2026 \|access-date=2025-09-26 \|work=Reddit}}</ref>

	Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.		Some parents noted frustration that siblings in the same household could no longer play together without paying a recurring fee. Others drew parallels to broader industry trends of subscription lock-ins and feature erosion, citing concerns that purchased digital products were increasingly unreliable over time.