Talk:Mission statement: Difference between revisions

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== Captcha system is bugged on user talk and discussion pages ==

I went to a user's talk page and tried to add a topic. Wrote it up, clicked to save, it asked me for some Captcha text -- but while there was a text box to enter my answer, there was no Captcha to be seen. This behaviour is consistent across other users' talk pages, as well as this very discussion page: I'm circumventing it by editing the source directly, rather than adding a topic. Yes, I manually copied the following code from another comment: [[User:Skatche|Skatche]] ([[User talk:Skatche|talk]]) 00:01, 27 January 2025 (EST)

Hi; thanks for reporting this. Staff are already working on a fix for this; sorry it took someone so long to see. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 02:45, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

== Concern about mission statement ==

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It should be mentioned that this wiki could be used as an index for solicitation with copyright requests, or through some other method, to take down at any point any of the sources listed on each page. Those sources, then, should at least be checked to make sure that they have been captured by the Internet Archive, or through some other service. I think it'd be tedious and unhelpful for every source to directly link to an archive page, but there should be some kind of policy to make sure that these sources are archived. [[User:Liana]] ([[User talk:Liana|talk]]) 17:11, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

: I think it'd be a much better idea if the sources WERE directly archived and/or pertinent screenshots pushed into the articles themselves so that any replicas of this wiki have them too. The Wiki likely should be easy to replicate, by the way. Maybe with published wiki dumps or such. - [[User:Anonymous]] 20 January 2025

: My worry is that if we do not capture sources (and sources request to be omitted from Internet Archives), they could be lost as has happened before. Link Rot is very real..

: I had to use internet archive to download the original software for my Linx tablets (which are now sadly considered to be e-waste), and if I could even suggest people run the tablets on original software (MS Windows 8.1), I would re-upload it to my own website, as the Linx website is dead and nothing (inclusive of Wikipedia, Internet Archive, the copper/fiber providing the connectivity even) is 100% guaranteed to stay up for the rest of forever. - [[User:DrToxic]] ([[user talk:DrToxic|talk]]) 16:18 22 January 2025

== What is the line in the sand for "new" consumer protection? ==

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: Thank you very much for the question, and I hope this provides some insight as to our stance! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 20:59, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Here’s my take on this:

The stories fall out of scope where they fail to address clear consumer deception, harm, or unethical practices that are integral to shaping consumer sentiment. This wiki, as I understand it, is about empowering consumers with knowledge of **how they’ve been misled or wronged** to prevent ongoing exploitation.

For example, a company transitioning from perpetual licenses to subscriptions might be **unpopular** but doesn’t inherently constitute deception or malpractice—it’s a business model shift, not a lie. However, **concealing predatory terms** (like subscription exit fees in the case of Adobe) or **breaking user trust** directly impacts consumer rights (and feelings) and fits squarely within scope.

The line is crossed when actions no longer directly reveal deceit, systemic exploitation, or a violation of consumer rights and expectations (and feelings).

[[User:Imolith|Imolith]] ([[User talk:Imolith|talk]]) 17:41, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

== Hiding the table of contents on the homepage ==

Now that this page is much shorter, I think it would be a good idea to hide the table of contents by placing <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki> at the top of the page (right above the first line, with no blank line in between). Right now, the table of contents takes up half of the available space on my screen. [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 07:05, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

: Steve from GN even hid it himself in his video: https://youtu.be/zdLr5CKFiJs?si=yL7pRnuAHhbtbTk5 [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 16:04, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

:: Hey [[User:Waldo|@Waldo]] you are right, should have gotten that done yesterday! [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 16:13, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

::: Thanks! To be fair, I didn't ping anyone yesterday :) [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 16:15, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

== Rewriting the Main Page and some broader site organization work ==

This is a vision I have for what the main page of this site could be, and how some organizational changes could be made on the site overall to make it more approachable, more educational, and easier to navigate. I've previously sent this to Support in Discord, but thought it might be good to share here. This proposal is better than the one I had sent in Discord.

In short, my vision is for the main page to be an intro to the website as a whole, and a central navigation point to help people get to the specific information they want, rather than a page focused on contribution to CAT.

A.) Title: Change this page's name from "Mission statement" to "Consumer Action Taskforce Wiki".

B.) Intro: Above the table-of-contents, add a one-paragraph summary of what the site is about/for. The Mission could be included here.

C.) Article/ToC: My proposal for the Table of Contents and overall article is to feature each major category of Consumer Rights, with Contribution and extra information toward the end.

ToC Proposal:

# What is "consumer protection" and how are we taking action?

# Right To Repair

# Right to Own / Right to Use What You Own

# Right to Privacy

# Right to the Justice System (Forced Arbitration)

# Right to Cancel

# Violations by Company

# Resources for consumers

# Fight for change / Take Action

# Contribute to this wiki

Each of these sections would be brief. The 'Right To Repair' section would introduce the issue, link to a couple of relevant articles for examples ('John Deere fails to uphold right to repair agreement' & 'Future Motion Onewheel skateboard...'), and link to a dedicated 'Right To Repair' page.

I would also suggest having the ToC be flat (i.e. no sublists)

D.) Dedicated Pages for each main topic

The dedicated 'Right To Repair' page would introduce the issue, feature a couple of example articles, and also catalogue all articles regarding 'Right To Repair'. 'Right To Own', 'Right To Privacy', and others would have dedicated pages in the same vein.

The catalogue of relevant articles on each dedicated page may be further organized. For example 'Tesla asks customers to vote against Right to Repair' might fall under a 'Political' category of R2R, whereas the Onewheel article might fall under a 'Devices' category. Some articles might appear on both 'Right to Repair' and 'Right to Own', so perhaps an additional section on each page for these multi-category articles.

E. Resources for Consumers (potentially off-topic)

'Resources for consumers' would include things like 'Privacy Not Included' from Mozilla, repair.wiki, iFixit.

It could additionally include recommendations for consumer-respecting devices and consumer-respecting software, but I know that product recommendations are off-topic for this site. The Editorial Guidelines state "This Wiki is not a place for product recommendations, and cannot be turned into a place for sneaky guerilla advertising, or the promotion of contributors' pet projects."

As an alternative, perhaps a guiding article for consumers of what to look for could be helpful when trying to choose consumer-respecting devices and software. Is it Open Source? Are Replacement Parts Available? Is a subscription required? Can it be remotely disabled? Is my data collected/sold? And then linking to other online resources where you can try to get answers to those questions.

F. 'Fight For Change / Take Action' (potentially off-topic)

The Editorial Guidelines state that "We will be especially vigilant against potentially harmful content, and take strong action against users who: (1)Advocate for direct action against malicious companies or individuals within articles themselves". So I don't know if a general guidance article on taking action for Consumer Rights is appropriate or not. Such an article, if it is appropriate, could direct folks toward contacting their representatives, using products that respect consumer rights, educating their friends, sharing the site.

This or a similar section of the site could also direct folks toward proposed legislation, failed legislation, maps of states that have addressed consumer issues, overview of the political process for getting R2R or other relevant legislation, and other legal/political resources of the sort.

G. Contribute to this Wiki

Provide brief summary of what does and does not belong on the wiki, and link to a dedicated 'Contributions' page that goes into more detail. Alternatively, brief summary then a list of links to more information.

A dedicated 'Contribute' page could give a numbered list of 'Before You Contribute', which then recommends things like 'Learn what belongs here', 'Learn what doesn't belong here', 'Read the Editorial Guidelines'. Then have a 'How To Contribute' section listing 'Edit Articles', 'Create New Articles', 'Discuss Changes' (talk page, discord), 'MediaWiki Formatting'. Then have a 'Contribute' section listing links to 'Convert Videos to Articles' (video directory), 'Articles in need of work', and whatever other avenues are recommended for contribution.

H. Navigation Menu

Suggestions:

* Put 'main page' at the top, followed by 'All Pages', then 'Categories', then the other links below those.

* Add a 'Consumer Rights' navigation box with the 'R2R', Right to Privacy, and dedicated-page links that I've suggested in the ToC section above.

+(added by Cire)+ On mobile navigation is clunky and there's no hyperlink or similar from the main page to the All pages search section. Mobile formats are what people will have all the time. Imagine if this wiki could be an app (or shortcut) on mobile and can be as easily referenced as one would a shoping list texted to you.

[[User:ReedyBear|ReedyBear]] 22:50, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

== Relevant biographical data ==

This is in regards to companies and organizations. The information included about describing them should be info that supports CAT efforts. One point in particular is information that establishes a chain of responsibility for that company or organization so as to give consumers a pathway to approach problems with those most responsible for a policy or condition arising. For example the company info box I added a line item to identify if they are a public or privately held company, which would be information to establish who is responsible for the company's activities.

In the case of an organization such as government agencies or commissions, where that organization derives its authority from would also establish how to address its behavior. It doesn't need to be a history lesson, just the point of its inception and under what conditions it was allowed to be made, such as what specific law or action established it. [[User:MadMallard|MadMallard]] ([[User talk:MadMallard|talk]]) 09:33, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+== Captcha system is bugged on user talk and discussion pages ==
+I went to a user's talk page and tried to add a topic. Wrote it up, clicked to save, it asked me for some Captcha text -- but while there was a text box to enter my answer, there was no Captcha to be seen. This behaviour is consistent across other users' talk pages, as well as this very discussion page: I'm circumventing it by editing the source directly, rather than adding a topic. Yes, I manually copied the following code from another comment: [[User:Skatche|Skatche]] ([[User talk:Skatche|talk]]) 00:01, 27 January 2025 (EST)
+Hi; thanks for reporting this. Staff are already working on a fix for this; sorry it took someone so long to see. - [[User:Atsumari|Atsumari]] ([[User talk:Atsumari|talk]]) 02:45, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
 == Concern about mission statement ==
@@ Line 9: / Line 15: @@
 It should be mentioned that this wiki could be used as an index for solicitation with copyright requests, or through some other method, to take down at any point any of the sources listed on each page. Those sources, then, should at least be checked to make sure that they have been captured by the Internet Archive, or through some other service. I think it'd be tedious and unhelpful for every source to directly link to an archive page, but there should be some kind of policy to make sure that these sources are archived.  [[User:Liana]] ([[User talk:Liana|talk]]) 17:11, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
+: I think it'd be a much better idea if the sources WERE directly archived and/or pertinent screenshots pushed into the articles themselves so that any replicas of this wiki have them too. The Wiki likely should be easy to replicate, by the way. Maybe with published wiki dumps or such. - [[User:Anonymous]] 20 January 2025
+: My worry is that if we do not capture sources (and sources request to be omitted from Internet Archives), they could be lost as has happened before. Link Rot is very real..
+: I had to use internet archive to download the original software for my Linx tablets (which are now sadly considered to be e-waste), and if I could even suggest people run the tablets on original software (MS Windows 8.1), I would re-upload it to my own website, as the Linx website is dead and nothing (inclusive of Wikipedia, Internet Archive, the copper/fiber providing the connectivity even) is 100% guaranteed to stay up for the rest of forever. - [[User:DrToxic]] ([[user talk:DrToxic|talk]]) 16:18 22 January 2025
 == What is the line in the sand for "new" consumer protection? ==
@@ Line 46: / Line 60: @@
 : Thank you very much for the question, and I hope this provides some insight as to our stance! [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 20:59, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
+Here’s my take on this:
+The stories fall out of scope where they fail to address clear consumer deception, harm, or unethical practices that are integral to shaping consumer sentiment. This wiki, as I understand it, is about empowering consumers with knowledge of **how they’ve been misled or wronged** to prevent ongoing exploitation.
+For example, a company transitioning from perpetual licenses to subscriptions might be **unpopular** but doesn’t inherently constitute deception or malpractice—it’s a business model shift, not a lie. However, **concealing predatory terms** (like subscription exit fees in the case of Adobe) or **breaking user trust** directly impacts consumer rights (and feelings) and fits squarely within scope.
+The line is crossed when actions no longer directly reveal deceit, systemic exploitation, or a violation of consumer rights and expectations (and feelings).
+[[User:Imolith|Imolith]] ([[User talk:Imolith|talk]]) 17:41, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
+== Hiding the table of contents on the homepage ==
+Now that this page is much shorter, I think it would be a good idea to hide the table of contents by placing <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki> at the top of the page (right above the first line, with no blank line in between). Right now, the table of contents takes up half of the available space on my screen. [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 07:05, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
+: Steve from GN even hid it himself in his video: https://youtu.be/zdLr5CKFiJs?si=yL7pRnuAHhbtbTk5 [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 16:04, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
+:: Hey [[User:Waldo|@Waldo]] you are right, should have gotten that done yesterday! [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 16:13, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
+::: Thanks! To be fair, I didn't ping anyone yesterday :) [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 16:15, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
+== Rewriting the Main Page and some broader site organization work ==
+This is a vision I have for what the main page of this site could be, and how some organizational changes could be made on the site overall to make it more approachable, more educational, and easier to navigate. I've previously sent this to Support in Discord, but thought it might be good to share here. This proposal is better than the one I had sent in Discord.
+In short, my vision is for the main page to be an intro to the website as a whole, and a central navigation point to help people get to the specific information they want, rather than a page focused on contribution to CAT.
+A.) Title: Change this page's name from "Mission statement" to "Consumer Action Taskforce Wiki".
+B.) Intro: Above the table-of-contents, add a one-paragraph summary of what the site is about/for. The Mission could be included here.
+C.) Article/ToC: My proposal for the Table of Contents and overall article is to feature each major category of Consumer Rights, with Contribution and extra information toward the end.
+ToC Proposal:
+# What is "consumer protection" and how are we taking action?
+# Right To Repair
+# Right to Own / Right to Use What You Own
+# Right to Privacy
+# Right to the Justice System (Forced Arbitration)
+# Right to Cancel
+# Violations by Company
+# Resources for consumers
+# Fight for change / Take Action
+# Contribute to this wiki
+Each of these sections would be brief. The 'Right To Repair' section would introduce the issue, link to a couple of relevant articles for examples ('John Deere fails to uphold right to repair agreement' &  'Future Motion Onewheel skateboard...'), and link to a dedicated 'Right To Repair' page.
+I would also suggest having the ToC be flat (i.e. no sublists)
+D.) Dedicated Pages for each main topic
+The dedicated 'Right To Repair' page would introduce the issue, feature a couple of example articles, and also catalogue all articles regarding 'Right To Repair'. 'Right To Own', 'Right To Privacy', and others would have dedicated pages in the same vein.
+The catalogue of relevant articles on each dedicated page may be further organized. For example 'Tesla asks customers to vote against Right to Repair' might fall under a 'Political' category of R2R, whereas the Onewheel article might fall under a 'Devices' category. Some articles might appear on both 'Right to Repair' and 'Right to Own', so perhaps an additional section on each page for these multi-category articles.
+E. Resources for Consumers (potentially off-topic)
+'Resources for consumers' would include things like 'Privacy Not Included' from Mozilla, repair.wiki, iFixit.
+It could additionally include recommendations for consumer-respecting devices and consumer-respecting software, but I know that product recommendations are off-topic for this site. The Editorial Guidelines state "This Wiki is not a place for product recommendations, and cannot be turned into a place for sneaky guerilla advertising, or the promotion of contributors' pet projects."
+As an alternative, perhaps a guiding article for consumers of what to look for could be helpful when trying to choose consumer-respecting devices and software. Is it Open Source? Are Replacement Parts Available? Is a subscription required? Can it be remotely disabled? Is my data collected/sold? And then linking to other online resources where you can try to get answers to those questions.
+F. 'Fight For Change / Take Action' (potentially off-topic)
+The Editorial Guidelines state that "We will be especially vigilant against potentially harmful content, and take strong action against users who: (1)Advocate for direct action against malicious companies or individuals within articles themselves". So I don't know if a general guidance article on taking action for Consumer Rights is appropriate or not. Such an article, if it is appropriate, could direct folks toward contacting their representatives, using products that respect consumer rights, educating their friends, sharing the site.
+This or a similar section of the site could also direct folks toward proposed legislation, failed legislation, maps of states that have addressed consumer issues, overview of the political process for getting R2R or other relevant legislation, and other legal/political resources of the sort.
+G. Contribute to this Wiki
+Provide brief summary of what does and does not belong on the wiki, and link to a dedicated 'Contributions' page that goes into more detail. Alternatively, brief summary then a list of links to more information.
+A dedicated 'Contribute' page could give a numbered list of 'Before You Contribute', which then recommends things like 'Learn what belongs here', 'Learn what doesn't belong here', 'Read the Editorial Guidelines'. Then have a 'How To Contribute' section listing 'Edit Articles', 'Create New Articles', 'Discuss Changes' (talk page, discord), 'MediaWiki Formatting'. Then have a 'Contribute' section listing links to 'Convert Videos to Articles' (video directory), 'Articles in need of work', and whatever other avenues are recommended for contribution.
+H. Navigation Menu
+Suggestions:
+* Put 'main page' at the top, followed by 'All Pages', then 'Categories', then the other links below those.
+* Add a 'Consumer Rights' navigation box with the 'R2R', Right to Privacy, and dedicated-page links that I've suggested in the ToC section above.
++(added by Cire)+ On mobile navigation is clunky and there's no hyperlink or similar from the main page to the All pages search section. Mobile formats are what people will have all the time. Imagine if this wiki could be an app (or shortcut) on mobile and can be as easily referenced as one would a shoping list texted to you.
+[[User:ReedyBear|ReedyBear]] 22:50, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
+== Relevant biographical data ==
+This is in regards to companies and organizations. The information included about describing them should be info that supports CAT efforts. One point in particular is information that establishes a chain of responsibility for that company or organization so as to give consumers a pathway to approach problems with those most responsible for a policy or condition arising. For example the company info box I added a line item to identify if they are a public or privately held company, which would be information to establish who is responsible for the company's activities.
+In the case of an organization such as government agencies or commissions, where that organization derives its authority from would also establish how to address its behavior. It doesn't need to be a history lesson, just the point of its inception and under what conditions it was allowed to be made, such as what specific law or action established it. [[User:MadMallard|MadMallard]] ([[User talk:MadMallard|talk]]) 09:33, 26 January 2025 (UTC)