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Please add cautions to discord link

Given the topic of this wiki, it surprises me that getting help seems to be gated behind discord.

I think it would make sense to have the link on the home page (which currently goes to discord) go to a page that explains the discord situation, points out the downsides of discord (including a link to the wiki’s coverage of discord), and then lists the discord link, as well as a link to wherever on the wiki one can get help if decide not to discord.

For discord you have to read 29 pages of TOS, 19 pages of privacy policy; agree to their data harvesting, give up 7th amendment rights (forced arbitration), no class action, etc. Then create an account, including surrendering your birth date. Then figure out how to use yet another interface. Evidently in some places you also have to send them a picture of you with some id (yours if you trust them, fake if you don't).

Pretty ironic for this wiki advocating consumers rights to gate things behind some company with a less than stellar consumer rights stance. I figure that wondering about discord is a frequently asked question, and there is probably a standard response/explanation, but I can not find anything about this on the wiki. Where is the coverage of this?

If such an explanation does not exist, please help create one. Some of the things I think it well to address:

• Why discord?
• Is anything being done to move to a more consumer friendly platform? (e.g., What other platforms are being considered? What platforms rejected? What are desiderata? What is anticipated time frame?)
• Is there a project to mirror the public parts of the discord to the wiki, or to a web page? (I haven’t found a tool to do this. If I were doing it, I would try starting with something like DiscordChatExporter. [not an endorsement, I haven’t tried it]) A discord client for wiki (i.e., lets wiki users post on the discord) would be even better. (However, with the direction discord company is going, this is probably not worth the effort.)

Any other questions such an explanation should answer?

I wrote this a few days ago, but hadn't posted it. Just saw Mr. Rossmann's video about discord's new terms of service. Seems to me even more urgent to modify how this wiki pushes people to discord. Thanks. Drakeula (talk) 00:17, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

Current TOS score average reading level of 14th grade (Junior in college), estimated reading time 42 minutes just for the TOS. A 2021 version of Discord TOS featured in "EULAs of despair". Linked TOS 5.62 Tolstoys, over 275 hours.[[1]] Drakeula (talk) 16:43, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

The discord link is in several other places (e.g. the left hand panel, the edit notice when moving a page). May be well to change those pages also to land on a caution page before just taking to Discord. Drakeula (talk) 05:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

I noticed that some other editors also are reluctant to use discord. See Talk:Main_Page/Archive_2#Please_whitelist_creativecommons.org Thanks. Drakeula (talk) 06:49, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

+1 to this, never signed up for an account, only to download things when people are too lazy to not force discord to get it. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 07:15, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

@Keith Hoping you can respond to this when you get the chance, since you mentioned this issue before. Beanie Bo (talk) 12:39, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Yep. I think @Drakeula's idea of a warning page makes sense. It would save a lot of questions, I'll add it onto my to-do, though if anyone here wants to take a crack at it (assuming I haven't by the time you read this) then that would be helpful too. Keith (talk) 19:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Where to ask questions on the wiki?

Where should users ask questions if they don't do discord? e.g., Questions about how to use wiki? Questions about policy? And most important, questions they can't figure out where to ask?

I have looked around, even read through the staff directory, but can't figure out who/where to ask.

A quick link/directory of where to ask would be really helpful on the homepage. Thank you. Drakeula (talk) 00:23, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

Not a mod (you’ve probably seen me say that by now) but I’d go to CRW Team which shows members, click on one of the blue wiki links and ask for advice on a mods talk page. They usually get back within a day or so. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 20:01, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

Basically this^

It might be best to ping specific moderators since not many of them are frequently on or are aware of all the Talk pages. And still, the noticeboard is the best bet for all questions, especially if you don't have one specific mod in mind. You can also ping someone there too. Beanie Bo (talk) 20:55, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

I think here is probably the main place, but you're right that this should be more cleanly documented Keith (talk) 19:47, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Add a main page list of major notorious companies

Please add to the main page a list/section of major companies known to have violated consumer rights, with direct links to each company’s article (e.g., Alphabet (Google), Microsoft). This would make it easier for average users to find out about it. EBones (talk) 09:19, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome! I agree that additional navigation pages could help make this wiki more accessible. However, I wonder how one could define such a list in a way that would keep it manageable. It could easily become an ever-expanding thing, or, if limited to a set number of entries, how would you focus it so that there wasn't constant back-and-forth about who should be on it? (Just my thought on how to improve the suggestion, if you want to pursue it.)

I have no idea whether such a thing would fly with the moderators here. Drakeula (talk) 05:37, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

My instinct is that this would end up as a very long list with a lot of unproductive arguments over who should and shouldn't be on it Keith (talk) 19:45, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Since the focus of the list/section is the average user, we could limit it to 10 products or companies from popular markets that have high market share. For example, operating systems are a very popular market compared to e.g. 360 cameras, with a clear leader, "Microsoft Windows," that has many consumer-unfriendly practices, such as requiring online accounts, etc. And we could also use that to link to more consumer-friendly competitors' wiki pages.

As it’s often pretty clear which markets are popular and who’s leading and also who the biggest competitors are, there shouldn’t be much debate, and if there still is some debate, we could just use a poll on Discord instead of arguing back and forth.

A short example:

Biggest Offenders and Alternatives

Alphabet: Google Search (Alternative: DuckDuckGo), Chrome (Alternative: Firefox, Ungoogled Chromium)

Microsoft : Windows 11 (Alternative: MacOs, Linux Distro) EBones (talk) 13:01, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

Those are mega-corporations that everyone knows commits consumer abuse on a daily basis. There is no real benefit to including them on the main page. Also, there is a search bar for that very reason. Beanie Bo (talk) 13:05, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

It is meant to help average users learn more about the practices of the companies behind the products they use and to consider alternatives.

Many people outside our circle know little about common consumer violations and never heard of alternatives such as DuckDuckGo. It should be on the main page, since again it is meant for the average user and could serve as a beginners guide.

I think it is a very common issue among consumer rights advocates that they don't properly consider how the average person acts and thinks. EBones (talk) 13:34, 20 October 2025 (UTC)