User talk:Kostas: Difference between revisions

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==Deletion requests==

Hi, can you take at the current [[:Category:Articles marked for deletion|articles marked for deletion]]? Here are some notes on why some of them have been marked for deletion:

*DRM (online), there already is a main DRM article

*EU Consumer protection laws, there are separate pages for laws, including these so it does not need its own page currently, the page is also empty

*Motorola phones, there already is a main Motorola article

[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] ([[User talk:InTransparencyWeTrust|talk]]) 13:32, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:I went through the articles you added, I have left the DRM on with a deletion notice for now since we need to clarify a bit the policy on the time we allow before acting on the deletion. The motorola phones one I added a merge request because it seems like something that could be added to the page if someone worked on it.

:Btw could you use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|deletion request template]] to mark pages like these? It's not a major deal but it helps to add the reasoning and the garbage template is technically supposed to be used after moderators determine the page is supposed to be deleted, the links to it are resolved (and put in a list of articles to go through and delete periodically). [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 20:23, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you, and yes they should have been deletion requests I see [[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] ([[User talk:InTransparencyWeTrust|talk]]) 20:31, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

:::No worries, it's a breakdown on the communication of the process not your fault [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 20:37, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

==Overlapping infobox and notice==

Hi, just wanted to point out that the [[ NordVPN ]] page has the infobox on the stub notice, I can't fix even if I use the source editor as it requires a moderator to do so.

[[User:Emanuele|ema]] ([[User talk:Emanuele|talk]]) 11:02, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Emanuele|ema]], thanks for the heads up. Should be fixed now [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 11:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

==Discussion on articles that link to guides==

Hi, recently I wrote the article for the ultimate guide to an open source life video, as it did not have an article on this wiki yet. As you can now find the categories on the main page of the wiki, which includes [[:Category:User guides|user guides]], it initially made sense to also categorize this article as such. The intention was also to make it easy for visitors of this wiki to find related resources, and for them to learn about what they can do. The section on guides for the [[Consumer_Action_Taskforce:Article_types|article types]] is strict for posting full guides, which is why the article does not repeat the guide, but refers to it. The same is true for another article, running AI models locally guide. Later I saw that there was confusion on whether or not to place a guide notice on this article, understandably, so what follows is how that should now be resolved for both articles:

I agree with you that they should not be marked as user guides, as they do not contain the full guide but refer to external resources. So to avoid further confusion, I changed their category to external guides to indicate that they are articles that just summarize resources external to this wiki. And of course the articles should only be made if, like the user guides, they allow users to regain ownership of their product. This category is a subcategory of [[:Category:User guides|user guides]], as they align with the same goal, makes them distinct, but still readily accessible via the main page of the wiki. I hope this clarification helps, and if you have any thoughts on this, feel free to reply --[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 19:12, 05 February 2025 (UTC)

:Hey @[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]], thanks for reaching out about this. I still have my reservations about having these as a sub-category to user guides. As far as content they fit more in the theme category but I can definetely see the reasoning behind the catgorization in that category (discoverability etc). I wanted to ask the opinion of @[[User:Keith|Keith]] and @[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] on this before contacting you about the category this sould fall under but having this conversation here might be better.

:The thing is that having guide on the wiki is not something we want to focus on so adding more types/versions of them would probably not be something we want to encourage. I thought of having the futo guide article as a section of the FUTO company page rather than a seperate enty would be better (or maybe I have missunderstood what the end goal with that is) and categorizing the local running of AI as a user guide page, so it can also bear the notice, despite the more general nature. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 21:00, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

::I think that 'Youtube content creator made a video detailing instructions on how to set up self-managed stuff' is somewhat beyond the scope of the Wiki. The most I could see it being here would be as a small mention in the FUTO article (i.e. FUTO comissioned this guide, which sought to advance conumser rights) or something of the sort. I don't think it fits as its own guide article here. At present, the only guides which exist on the Wiki are those directly tied to specific conusmer protection incidents, and I think that's probably how it should stay for the forseeable future. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:10, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

::When an external guide relates to a specific incident, a short paragraph on the incident page should be enough to refer readers to the guide. A whole article is not needed.

::Right now, there are four full guides directly under the user guides category. I would argue that they do not align with the purpose of this wiki, which is to highlight consumer protection issues. The existence of these guides will make moderation more difficult as the wiki grows larger and edits are made more frequently.

::I feel the same way toward the external guides, which are just summaries of external resources. Why do we need these, when we can just link to the external resources where relevant? [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 21:20, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

:::The idea to move futo guide article to the FUTO company page itself seems like the best idea, I will move it accordingly. The same holds for the other article, that can also be moved into the main article as a section, which I will also do. Thank you--[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 21:26, 05 February 2025 (UTC)

::::@[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] Thanks you and thank you for taking the time to write articles as well.

::::For the AI article page I am not sure which page would be apropriate, but if you find a suitable onee and try to cut down its length a bit to be more brief we could try and see if it fits.

::::Another possible option is to make an article with a more detailed guide on self hosting an LLM on wiki.futo.org I am not sure if it is exactly in scope for there or if the articles should only focus on different ways to do the things on the main guide, but I would think it would fit better there, theme being self hosting and all. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 21:36, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

::::For now I moved that content to the [[Artificial intelligence]] page as it it is quite short, and leaves room to talk about the privacy concerns regarding these online chatbots. If someone wants to make a larger guide on the other wiki, feel free to do so. --[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 21:57, 05 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think that works for the moment. Thank you. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 22:06, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

==Discussion on DeletionRequest==

Hi, could you please take a look at the discussion at [[Template talk:DeletionRequest#message=]]? Thanks [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 04:58, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

==Merge request==

I figure someone should field this merge request: https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Talk:EULA_roofie#Merge_suggestion. Since there are no way to submit merge requests at the moment, I just put it in the talk page, but no one seems to have seen it. Louis seems to want an alternative for the "roofie" term too, so the time is probably ripe to decide whether the suggested merge is a good alternative term. [[User:Mingyee|Mingyee]] ([[User talk:Mingyee|talk]]) 16:50, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

==RE: I Will Not Use Discord block==

Since I do not know who the other administrators are, I would like to discuss the block with you. However, you do not seem to have an email address listed to contact you with. And I still will not use an evil privacy-invasive service like Discord. Therefore, I am attempting to contact you about my block this way.

Line 34:

Line 84:

I will put an indefinite block on the alt tommorow.

I respect your not wanting to use discord but focus on wiki topics when using the talk pages.

==Wiki suggestions==

Hello! Since Discord is down currently, I have 2 concerns I would like to bring up:

1. I feel that the new default font is too small compared to the previous.

2. Should there be a "Positive companies" category? I noticed the "Examples of positive consumer practices" category was recently replaced.

Let me know what you think! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 19:19, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]], I completely missed the discord down time but I will reply here anyway.

:#I tried to change the auxiliary text to be a bit larger earlier today. If you feel the size in the content itself is too small can you try using the appearance tab to bump up the text size to Standard (or Large ?) . It should be either in the right sidebar or hidden in an icon next to your username. Mediawiki defaults to small for some reason and it is indeed quite tiny. If the text still seems small we can revisit and change to a different font (or look for a way to make everthing larger. Sadly this is not as straightforward as it seems but I promise we will give it a shot.

:#I will copy and paste the update I posted on discord "I think categorization of companies should remain more subjective with the existing subcategories in order to help keep a more neutral approach and avoid good/bad categorization and translating the categorization as wiki "endorsement"" . So in my opinion no, positive companie should not exist, but we can revisit with @[[User:Keith|Keith]] either here or on discord if you feel differently.

:Thank you very much for the feedback, its very much appreciated (as are your contributions of course. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 19:58, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for letting me know! I understand with #2 that the category may seem as an endorsement. Though I cannot find a text size option under the appearance tab for my preferences. '''UPDATE:''' after typing this I noticed the text was changed and it is better than before, as everything was spaced out. Unfortunately it seems that is still the case for logged-out users. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:26, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:::[[File:Text size options.png|alt=screenshot showing the options for text size in the sidebar|thumb|Options for text size in the sidebar]]

:::[[File:Submenu for text size options.png|alt=Screenshot showing options for text size when moved to submenu|thumb|Options for text size when moved to submenu]]

:::The settings I am reffering to are not in your preferences page. Is the Appearance dialog not present to the right of all pages (see image on the right) ? If it is not it may be up next to your username in a menu next to your username(see second image on the right). These affect the content and not the other elements but they should be available for all users (logged in or not). The default size is small for some reason and I cannot find a configuration option to change it. I could bump everything up but then users with other fonts may be negatiely affected (the font is set differently depending on the device used and font availability in browser right now). [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 09:54, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::::I cannot find either appearance section when refreshing. I even tried searching in the webpage source for "appearance" and "small", but it does not appear. I can see the glasses in Edge and the Appearance side bar when logged out of Firefox, but not when I'm logged in after deleting my cookies (when I log in, the right side disappears and the main article gets larger). [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 19:34, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+==Deletion requests==
+Hi, can you take at the current [[:Category:Articles marked for deletion|articles marked for deletion]]? Here are some notes on why some of them have been marked for deletion:
+*DRM (online), there already is a main DRM article
+*EU Consumer protection laws, there are separate pages for laws, including these so it does not need its own page currently, the page is also empty
+*Motorola phones, there already is a main Motorola article
+[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] ([[User talk:InTransparencyWeTrust|talk]]) 13:32, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
+:I went through the articles you added, I have left the DRM on with a deletion notice for now since we need to clarify a bit the policy on the time we allow before acting on the deletion. The motorola phones one I added a merge request because it seems like something that could be added to the page if someone worked on it.
+:Btw could you use the [[Template:DeletionRequest|deletion request template]] to mark pages like these? It's not a major deal but it helps to add the reasoning and the garbage template is technically supposed to be used after moderators determine the page is supposed to be deleted, the links to it are resolved (and put in a list of articles to go through and delete periodically).  [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 20:23, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
+::Thank you, and yes they should have been deletion requests I see [[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] ([[User talk:InTransparencyWeTrust|talk]]) 20:31, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
+:::No worries, it's a breakdown on the communication of the process not your fault [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 20:37, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
+==Overlapping infobox and notice==
+Hi, just wanted to point out that the [[ NordVPN ]] page has the infobox on the stub notice, I can't fix even if I use the source editor as it requires a moderator to do so.
+[[User:Emanuele|ema]] ([[User talk:Emanuele|talk]]) 11:02, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
+:Hi @[[User:Emanuele|ema]], thanks for the heads up. Should be fixed now [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 11:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
+==Discussion on articles that link to guides==
+Hi, recently I wrote the article for the ultimate guide to an open source life video, as it did not have an article on this wiki yet. As you can now find the categories on the main page of the wiki, which includes [[:Category:User guides|user guides]], it initially made sense to also categorize this article as such. The intention was also to make it easy for visitors of this wiki to find related resources, and for them to learn about what they can do. The section on guides for the [[Consumer_Action_Taskforce:Article_types|article types]] is strict for posting full guides, which is why the article does not repeat the guide, but refers to it. The same is true for another article, running AI models locally guide. Later I saw that there was confusion on whether or not to place a guide notice on this article, understandably, so what follows is how that should now be resolved for both articles:
+I agree with you that they should not be marked as user guides, as they do not contain the full guide but refer to external resources. So to avoid further confusion, I changed their category to external guides to indicate that they are articles that just summarize resources external to this wiki. And of course the articles should only be made if, like the user guides, they allow users to regain ownership of their product. This category is a subcategory of [[:Category:User guides|user guides]], as they align with the same goal, makes them distinct, but still readily accessible via the main page of the wiki. I hope this clarification helps, and if you have any thoughts on this, feel free to reply --[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 19:12, 05 February 2025 (UTC)
+:Hey @[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]], thanks for reaching out about this. I still have my reservations about having these as a sub-category to user guides. As far as content they fit more in the theme category but I can definetely see the reasoning behind the catgorization in that category (discoverability etc). I wanted to ask the opinion of @[[User:Keith|Keith]] and @[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] on this before contacting you about the category this sould fall under but having this conversation here might be better.
+:The thing is that having guide on the wiki is not something we want to focus on so adding more types/versions of them would probably not be something we want to encourage. I thought of having the futo guide article as a section of the FUTO company page rather than a seperate enty would be better (or maybe I have missunderstood what the end goal with that is) and categorizing the local running of AI as a user guide page, so it can also bear the notice, despite the more general nature.  [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 21:00, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
+::I think that 'Youtube content creator made a video detailing instructions on how to set up self-managed stuff' is somewhat beyond the scope of the Wiki. The most I could see it being here would be as a small mention in the FUTO article (i.e. FUTO comissioned this guide, which sought to advance conumser rights) or something of the sort. I don't think it fits as its own guide article here. At present, the only guides which exist on the Wiki are those directly tied to specific conusmer protection incidents, and I think that's probably how it should stay for the forseeable future. [[User:Keith|Keith]] ([[User talk:Keith|talk]]) 21:10, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
+::When an external guide relates to a specific incident, a short paragraph on the incident page should be enough to refer readers to the guide. A whole article is not needed.
+::Right now, there are four full guides directly under the user guides category. I would argue that they do not align with the purpose of this wiki, which is to highlight consumer protection issues. The existence of these guides will make moderation more difficult as the wiki grows larger and edits are made more frequently.
+::I feel the same way toward the external guides, which are just summaries of external resources. Why do we need these, when we can just link to the external resources where relevant? [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 21:20, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
+:::The idea to move futo guide article to the FUTO company page itself seems like the best idea, I will move it accordingly. The same holds for the other article, that can also be moved into the main article as a section, which I will also do. Thank you--[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 21:26, 05 February 2025 (UTC)
+::::@[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] Thanks you and thank you for taking the time to write articles as well.
+::::For the AI article page I am not sure which page would be apropriate, but if you find a suitable onee and try to cut down its length a bit to be more brief we could try and see if it fits.
+::::Another possible option is to make an article with a more detailed guide on self hosting an LLM on wiki.futo.org I am not sure if it is exactly in scope for there or if the articles should only focus on different ways to do the things on the main guide, but I would think it would fit better there, theme being self hosting and all.  [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 21:36, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
+::::For now I moved that content to the [[Artificial intelligence]] page as it it is quite short, and leaves room to talk about the privacy concerns regarding these online chatbots. If someone wants to make a larger guide on the other wiki, feel free to do so. --[[User:InTransparencyWeTrust|InTransparencyWeTrust]] 21:57, 05 February 2025 (UTC)
+:::::I think that works for the moment. Thank you.  [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 22:06, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
+==Discussion on DeletionRequest==
+Hi, could you please take a look at the discussion at [[Template talk:DeletionRequest#message=]]? Thanks [[User:Waldo|Waldo]] ([[User talk:Waldo|talk]]) 04:58, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
+==Merge request==
+I figure someone should field this merge request: https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Talk:EULA_roofie#Merge_suggestion. Since there are no way to submit merge requests at the moment, I just put it in the talk page, but no one seems to have seen it. Louis seems to want an alternative for the "roofie" term too, so the time is probably ripe to decide whether the suggested merge is a good alternative term. [[User:Mingyee|Mingyee]] ([[User talk:Mingyee|talk]]) 16:50, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
+==RE: I Will Not Use Discord block==
 Since I do not know who the other administrators are, I would like to discuss the block with you. However, you do not seem to have an email address listed to contact you with. And I still will not use an evil privacy-invasive service like Discord. Therefore, I am attempting to contact you about my block this way.
@@ Line 34: / Line 84: @@
          I will put an indefinite block on the alt tommorow.
          I respect your not wanting to use discord but focus on wiki topics when using the talk pages.
+==Wiki suggestions==
+Hello! Since Discord is down currently, I have 2 concerns I would like to bring up:
+. I feel that the new default font is too small compared to the previous.
+. Should there be a "Positive companies" category? I noticed the "Examples of positive consumer practices" category was recently replaced.
+Let me know what you think! [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 19:19, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
+:Hey @[[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]], I completely missed the discord down time but I will reply here anyway.
+:#I tried to change the auxiliary text to be a bit larger earlier today. If you feel the size in the content itself is too small can you try using the appearance tab to bump up the text size to Standard (or Large ?) . It should be either in the right sidebar or hidden in an icon next to your username. Mediawiki defaults to small for some reason and it is indeed quite tiny. If the text still seems small  we can revisit and change to a different font (or look for a way to make everthing larger. Sadly this is not as straightforward as it seems but I promise we will give it a shot.
+:#I will copy and paste the update I posted on discord "I think categorization of companies should remain more subjective with the existing subcategories in order to help keep a more neutral approach and avoid good/bad categorization and translating the categorization as wiki "endorsement"" . So in my opinion no, positive companie should not exist, but we can revisit with @[[User:Keith|Keith]] either here or on discord if you feel differently.
+:Thank you very much for the feedback, its very much appreciated (as are your contributions of course. [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 19:58, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
+::Thanks for letting me know! I understand with #2 that the category may seem as an endorsement. Though I cannot find a text size option under the appearance tab for my preferences. '''UPDATE:''' after typing this I noticed the text was changed and it is better than before, as everything was spaced out. Unfortunately it seems that is still the case for logged-out users. [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 22:26, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
+:::[[File:Text size options.png|alt=screenshot showing the options for text size in the sidebar|thumb|Options for text size in the sidebar]]
+:::[[File:Submenu for text size options.png|alt=Screenshot showing options for text size when moved to submenu|thumb|Options for text size when moved to submenu]]
+:::The settings I am reffering to are not in your preferences page. Is the Appearance dialog not present to the right of all pages (see image on the right) ? If it is not it may be up next to your username in a menu next to your username(see second image on the right). These affect the content and not the other elements but they should be available for all users (logged in or not). The default size is small for some reason and I cannot find a configuration option to change it. I could bump everything up but then users with other fonts may be negatiely affected (the font is set differently depending on the device used and font availability in browser right now). [[User:Kostas|Kostas]] ([[User talk:Kostas|talk]]) 09:54, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
+::::I cannot find either appearance section when refreshing. I even tried searching in the webpage source for "appearance" and "small", but it does not appear. I can see the glasses in Edge and the Appearance side bar when logged out of Firefox, but not when I'm logged in after deleting my cookies (when I log in, the right side disappears and the main article gets larger). [[User:Mr Pollo|Mr Pollo]] ([[User talk:Mr Pollo|talk]]) 19:34, 11 March 2025 (UTC)