User talk:Keith

Alexa (talk) 16 May 2025

Hello @Keith,

I'm interested in helping with the wiki, and specifically I have real world example, but would like to check if it's a good fit here or not.

And I can't talk in discord, as it's forcing me to submit my email.

Is this a good place to start conversation on adding new company, and fitness of the case.

Thank you.

∼∼∼∼

Hi @Alexa!

No problem at all - go ahead and let me know what your thought is and I'll give you my thoughts on whether/how it fits on the wiki!

Keith (talk) 20:03, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Alexa (talk) 06:36, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

@Keith,

There is company in California that offers indoor skydiving, and obviously they have waiver to sign (with arbitration 😃), but it's not the issue I found there, but that part of that waiver is "consent" to "grant exclusive permission" to take photo/video, and use it in their promotional materials, and there is no way to sign the waiver without consenting to that photo/video permission, online form doesn't allow you to proceed. And even when we went to the place itself, staff said that "corporate doesn't allow them to print out forms to fill out, anymore, and all waivers need to be filled in online", means we can't opt out from that photo/video consent. So my kid ended up not taking that "flight", because we couldn't sign the waiver without consenting to photos.

Thank you.

Alexa (talk) 17 May 2025

@Alexa

I think that fits the bill - although it's a smaller company, it fits within the frame of modern consumer protection and demonstrates how draconian the terms for even something like that can be. Go for it! I'd probably say that this is a case where a company article can be created, and the TOS issue can be neatly summarised within it, as opposed to being a seperate incident article.

Edit: actually, I might have got ahead of myself - is this something which has been covered or discussed annywhere other than by yourself? If not, it may fall foul of the No Original Research rule, although a very basic page which basically just lays out the facts which can be established from their website and TOS, and does not provide any commentary beyond this, might be ok.

Keith (talk) 07:55, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Re: CAT Documentation

@Keith I've replied to your message at User talk:Travis. Let me know if you'd like to discuss further approaches to organizing the documentation. Travis (talk) 14:43, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Delegating tasks

Hello Keith,

You said at the meetup that you found it easy to delegate.

This interests me because when I was in business, I found it difficult delegate: did not believe people could not do a good enough job and I would be still responsible for the results.

Is this topic of interest to you?

∼∼∼∼

Janosabel (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

I think that in the context of wikis or any kind of community project, one needs to be able to trust others to get anywhere (perhaps with some verification too at times).

I'm under absolutely no illusion that I can do all or even much of this by myself, and we have some really talented and great people on the team!

There's no way of achieving the results we'd want without spreading the workload and decision-making responsibility. Keith (talk) 09:33, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

I understand what you mean.

Just realised, I was speaking about me half a century ago; and not being able to trust delegees cost me a burnout. Without delegation even if imperfect, what must be done cannot be done.

Unfortunately I cannot help by contributing to the Wiki for lack of academic training in the required writing style, but put on my talk page a witness account how supermarkets expanding to local areas are killing independent small traders.

PS. What is the difference between <edit source> and using the <reply> button? Janosabel (talk) 20:05, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

I think the reply button just opens up a small window of the editor, and applies the signature to the message automatically? I'll have a look at what you mentioned, but I'm not sure it quite fits the theme of the Wiki, as we're keeping it focused on anti-consumer activities, rather than general issues with corporate behaviour.

And yes, I'll be careful on burnout! I want to avoid the combination of this and my day job driving me mad... Keith (talk) 23:02, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks and silly questions

Hi Keith,

thanks for adding me to the confirmed users. Total newbie here, i have no idea how to properly contribute. I tried to start a discussion in the Category Leagislation Africa, not sure if it was posted.

Should i ask it directly here? or keep it in that category?

Mika, Madagascar. Mikadago (talk) 11:42, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm happy to reply there, though it will take a few mins to put together an answer and provide some guidance on where best to include the information Keith (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Is the main Miku article ready to have the stub removed?

Miku

I've been working on getting to Miku article to a better place, is there anything else you think I should add to it before the stub is removed? Left4Code (talk) 01:20, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Happy to remove the incomplete notice as it's defeinitely better sourced now, but I think it might be s good idea for you to have a look at how the controversies/incidents section is laid out on the Netflix article, as the way it's done in the Miku article is a little strange, especially with the 'this article sumarizes' bits at the start of paragraphs

In any case, thank you for the good work! Keith (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Why was my page deleted?

I also see no notices or notifications in regard to this. I thought the whole point of this was for transparency? Slab Man (talk) 21:12, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

From what I can tell you created the article with, other than the information from the form, just a couple of sentences containing an accusation without any citation or reference to support it. After around 12 hours, Mr Pollo added a deletion notice to the article, as there was virtually no information contained in the article. After a couple more days, as the article had not been edited or improved, it was deleted.

I can't speak to the lack of notifications - usually whenever an article you've been involved in is edited, it will show up in your inbox in the top right of the screen. It's possible that the full deletion of the article resulted in it removing the notifications; I'm not exactly sure of how that interaction works Keith (talk) 23:01, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Well I planned to add more details and citations when I had time. It can't be a draft/work in progress? You have to write everything in one go? Slab Man (talk) 04:44, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

The wiki generally expects an article to have at least a few references and all of the template parts at least partially filled in within the first few days of an article's creation. JamesTDG (talk) 05:59, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

I'll second what James said, and also add that it's possible to create draft pages within your user space. You do this by adding 'user:[yourname]/' to the start of the page name. This keeps it out of mainspace, meaning it is not searchable by the main search bar.

Currently this policy you've encountered is unwritten, so I'll add it to the moderator guidelines shortly. Keith (talk) 06:30, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Noted. It would be great if there was a regular draft function like in almost every software. (So this doesn’t happen to other new users after their first contribution.) Honestly, after you deleted it, it felt like my contribution is unwanted. Slab Man (talk) 04:31, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

That's fair enough - we should add some more text to the article creation flow which explains how user space works, how to make a draft article, and what the policy for handling new articles is. If you'd like, I can get the text from the deleted article and put it on your user talk page or something so you can pick it up from where you left off? Keith (talk) 10:37, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you that would be great. Looking forward to helping out! Slab Man (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

Interenet Archive stub notice seems badly placed

Hi @Keith, the stub notice on Internet Archive seems to be after the lead section and not before it. Can you please fix this? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 06:40, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

Done! Keith (talk) 08:23, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

Question about re-use of sources for LiveView Article

Hey Keith,

I noticed that for the LiveView Technologies AI Surveillance article, the same source has been re-used multiple times but shows up with a different citation number. Namely the citations number 6,32, and 33 are duplicates of 4 (LVT Use Cases in Law Enforcement), 14 is a duplicate of 5 (AI-Driven Mobile Security for Every Threat), 35 is a duplicate of 8 (Fusion Centers), and 21 is a duplicate of 20 (Mobile cameras deployed at Monroe County Office Building amid security concerns)

Also the links are missing the archive URLs in the references and some don't have author first and last name or date where they are available on the site or the date is incorrect.

I have a version of the article which shrinks the list of references (citation 33 is now a re-use of citation 4 for that section for example) and also has the relevant archive links and names and dates for each reference where possible.

Should I commit the change? I know that this article may be looked at be people very soon and I'd rather get your approval to change it and have you ready to roll-back or append to it in case you don't like it. Left4Code (talk) 18:47, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

I think I'm going to commit the change now, you're free to revert it or check it over in case I messed something up. In the event this article is mentioned at City hall on Thursday, I want it to be the best it can be.

Thank you for helping with the wiki. Left4Code (talk) 19:03, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! and yeah, if you notice small formating issues (especially with an article louis has been working on :P ) just go ahead and make the change - that's the way of the wiki! Keith (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Small formatting issues or other non-obvious things like referencing problems* Keith (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Proposal to add a section for organized meetings. (might be a better name for this)

Hey Keith, I hope I'm not posting here again too early.

I thought about how every time Louis wants to generate interest for a particular issue with regards to getting viewers to organize, most of the time he has to do a video on it and these calls for organization when fighting for a particular issue (such as LVT tomorrow) are based in the United States.

I don't know if this already exists on the wiki (if it does, i'd like to know where it is), but do you think it would be a good idea to create a page specifically for posting the dates and instructions for showing up to demonstrations or hearings for the purposes of pushing back against anti-consumer or anti-privacy related issues? (This could be world-wide).

If someone from the UK for example wanted to organize a demonstration or have people speak at or attend an open council meeting, they would edit a row of a wiki table and list the time of the demonstration, an additional page describing the instructions or requirements to attend, and the issue that will be talked about (similar to rossmanngroup.com/clippyone).

I feel that with something like this, organizing both members of the public and members of the wiki regardless of country would be much easier and could provide a centralized and updated list of upcoming events based on user submission and moderator approval.

Let me know what you think about something like this when you're free to reply, I'd like to hear your thoughts in addition to anyone else who sees this and wants to talk about it. Left4Code (talk) 17:11, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

It's definitely on the edge of what makes sense here, but I think that it's worth considering as it could well be useful. Might be something that will end up being done through FULU though in the end... maybe some kind of 'events noticeboard' a bit like the moderator notice could work? Keith (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

An "events noticeboard" in the way you describe it with moderation is exactly what I was thinking. You're right about how it should be done through FULU directly instead of the wiki, that's a better idea.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I was just wondering if it was a completely off-the-wall idea. Left4Code (talk) 23:16, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

BT article

Hello Keith, remember this article? I pinged you 16 days ago but it seems that it didn’t work and I’ve forgotten about it since. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 19:27, 16 September 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder! as we were both in agreement, I removed the article. Keith (talk) 06:48, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Privacy notice change

Hello Keith, I was looking through things in the Mediawiki namespace to see how backend works, when I noticed the Mediawiki:Footer-privacy-notice page and it reminded me of this on the main page. Can we change it quickly or does it need to be done backend? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:37, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

We're going to do a policy update and a full review of that stuff when we update the backend tomorrow, so I'll make sure it's handled Keith (talk) 19:01, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

Protect Template:Welcome

Hello, am contacting you directly as I think it is the best way to make this happen, but PLEASE protect Template:Welcome, I doubt we'll get vandalism on there but if we do and it sends a message with it we're done for... AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:06, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Oh, also can you make the bot substitute (make the template not change on that page even after it gets updated) the templates for the sake of preservation of the page? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:08, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @Beanie Bo for getting that first one!

I think I get what you mean re. the substitution, but have no idea how to do it. Will look into it Keith (talk) 16:30, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for bringing it up! I'm not sure about your second question though, so I'll leave that to Keith. Beanie Bo (talk) 18:26, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Second one is complicated, but the first one is the only important one. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:39, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Is it fine for me to get an alternate account?

Edit: Have no clue why I'd need this in practice, so forget about it. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

no worries. In answer to your question, as long as we're notified, and there are no sockpuppetry shenanigans, then the answer is yes. Keith (talk) 15:39, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Do you mind if I use AutoWikiBrowser on the CRW?

Hello, I recently heard about a tool called AutoWikiBrowser which is a semi-automated tool meant to help for repetitive smaller edits which I do a lot, do you mind if I use it and if you don't mind, should I use an alternate account for it (maybe with 'bot flag' even though it's not a bot so it doesn't show??) Edit: Also, the page to get this, BotPasswords, lets you change grants for people/things with the password, so is it okay to let people/things with the password edit protected pages (for things like typo-fixing Project namespace pages)? It is risky if it is obtained.AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Happy for you to use that! sounds like a great tool. No strong opinions on whetehr you make a separate account for it Keith (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

On the passwords front, I'm not sure how exactly that works. Does it give you the ability to use your own account via API? Keith (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Yes, botpasswords is pretty much that. It lets you change permissions too, so I can give it only specific permissions for safety reasons. Also, as for the ‘seperate account thing’ Botpasswords (the one that I can use) gives me a new account anyway so there’s no reason for it, just me misunderstanding the usage. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 14:16, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Cool, that sounds fine then! do you need me to do anything to get it set up? Keith (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

No, I’ll do it myself when I next get a chance on my PC (without any special perms as I don’t know why I’d need that!) AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 14:21, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Found Large Amount of 404 links for flock article

Page link: Flock license plate readers

Hey Keith,

I was checking the sources in the above article and noticed that for a large section of it, the sources will lead directly to pages which either don't exist or result in 404. I really hope that this is just a problem on my end and isn't really the case. Below is the complete list of all sources I found that lead to 404'd pages. On the actual article page, I have also marked the following with the status of usurped for the time being.

Ref #	Title	Issue	Archive state	Link
20	"How Vehicle Fingerprint Technology Works"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/resources/how-vehicle-fingerprint-technology-works
21	"License Plate Surveillance Company Can Now Capture Images of Vehicle Occupants' Faces"	404	no archive	https://www.404media.co/flock-safety-can-now-capture-faces-of-vehicle-occupants/
22	"Transforming Flock: Beyond License Plate Reading to Deliver Greater Insights for Solving Crime"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/newsroom/transforming-flock-beyond-license-plate-reading-to-deliver-greater-insights-for-solving-crime/
24	"Atlas of Surveillance: Flock Safety"	goes to deeplinks blog, but no article	no archive	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/04/atlas-surveillance-flock-safety
25	"Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle v. Baltimore Police Department"	404	no archive	https://www.eff.org/cases/leaders-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department
26	"Carpenter and the Evolving Fourth Amendment"	404	no archive	https://www.law.georgetown.edu/american-criminal-law-review/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/01/60-1-Carpenter-and-the-Evolving-Fourth-Amendment.pdf
27	"Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle v. Baltimore Police Department"	404	no archive	https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67689711/leaders-of-a-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department/
28	"Illinois Compiled Statutes - Freedom from Drone Surveillance Act"	404	no archive	https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=3541&ChapterID=53
29	"RSA 236:130 Automated License Plate Recognition"	potential 404	no archive	http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/236/236-130.htm
32	"Surveillance firm provided ICE access to license plate reader systems"	404	no archive	https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jul/15/flock-safety-ice-license-plate-reader
33	"How Flock Safety is Building a Surveillance Network for ICE"	404	no archive	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/flock-safety-and-ice
34	"ICE Surveillance of Immigrants and Advocates"	404	no archive	https://americanoversight.org/investigation/ice-surveillance-of-immigrants-and-advocates/
35	"ACLU Obtains Records Showing ICE Using License Plate Readers in Sanctuary Cities"	404	no archive	https://www.aclunc.org/news/aclu-obtains-records-showing-ice-using-license-plate-readers-sanctuary-cities
36	"License Plate Readers Are Creating a US-Wide Database of More Than Just Cars"	404	no archive	https://www.vice.com/en/article/license-plate-readers-abortion-clinics-texas
37	"Reproductive Surveillance in Post-Roe America"	404	no archive	https://www.surveillancewatch.io/reproductive-surveillance-post-roe/
38	"State Shield Laws and Reproductive Privacy"	dead site	no archive	https://reproductiverights.gov/shield-laws/
39	"Flock Safety Employees Caught Misusing Access to Surveillance Network"	404	no archive	https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-employees-misuse-access/
40	"Audit Reveals Hundreds of Flock Safety Privacy Violations"	404	no archive	https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/15/audit-reveals-hundreds-of-flock-safety-privacy-violations/
41	"When License Plate Readers Become Tools for Stalking"	404	no archive	https://apnews.com/article/license-plate-readers-police-misuse-stalking
42	"Detroit Officer Fired for Using City Cameras to Track Ex-Wife"	404	no archive	https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2024/03/officer-fired-tracking-ex-wife/
43	"Proactive Security Disclosure Q2 2025"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/proactive-security-disclosure-q2-2025

If you discover no issues (or the formatting of this table turns out horrible and breaks your talk page), disregard this and remove my topic from your page. And revert the change I made to the article where I marked the mentioned links as usurped.

Hopefully if these sites really lead to nothing and it's not just me, then the table makes it easy for you to do something. Left4Code (talk) 02:52, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Had a bit of a dig and my suspicion, expecially since these references are all next to each other, is that there was probably some AI chicanery in the making of the article.

Seem to be poitentially based on real pages, e.g. this one:

https://www.eff.org/document/fourth-circuit-ruling-leaders-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department

is probably meant to be #25 instead of what is currently there

I'd recommend sticking this table on the Flock talk page (if you haven't already) and letting people know they might need to look for what these links are meant to be Keith (talk) 14:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the table to the discussion tab. Should there be a notice at the top of the Flock page to make people aware? Or leave it as is? Beanie Bo (talk) 17:42, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Nevermind about the notice. The references were small enough to not need them for the most part. I started working on fixing some of them Beanie Bo (talk) 18:30, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Oversighted something

Hello, Keith! I just wanted to let you know I just gave myself the 'suppressor' user right as I oversighted what I think could be your IP address for privacy reasons. The info is at Special:Diff/805. If it isn't your IP address, feel free to revert what I just did. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 11:32, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

I think it might have been (though very good chance it was some temp VPN/mobile IP address). In any case, thank you for spotting it! Keith (talk) 12:09, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

being able to edit Discussions

hey so I just discovered I can edit discussions. not only mine but any1 elses. is this an oversight? SinexTitan (talk) 20:23, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

Not sure - might just be how wikis are (given that edit logs are public, it's pretty easy to combat anyone trying to abuse it, same as with article vandalism)

I'll page in @UntoK in case it's something that isn't how it should be Keith (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

Nah, that's MediaWiki. Nothing unusual there. Edit Source is actually the default way to edit discussions in MediaWiki, but the interface is changed by an extension (forgot the name), so that it shows as this instead of just the edit source button. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:37, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

dk y I didn't notice that b4. I've been on and off w contribs so thought smth changed since my last visit. anyhow thanks for clearing up the concern. SinexTitan (talk) 19:00, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

"fixing" recent changes

since the introduction of Template:Welcome, Special:RecentChanges has become a graveyard of User:Talks that I have to sift through in order to double check people's work. can we please block User:New_user_message from showing up on there?

edit: the bot bypasses the "Human (not bot) active filter SinexTitan (talk) 22:12, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

yeah, that's a localsettings.php part that Keith can pass on to Unto. setting $wgNewUserSuppressRC to true should work. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

as a temp fix, this should work AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 10:54, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

legend. thank you SinexTitan (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi @AnotherConsumerRightsPerson - took a bit of a break over the holidays so sorry for not replying. I'll contact Unto and see if he can take a look Keith (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough! AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

any update? SinexTitan (talk) 17:55, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

I've put Unto on it but no update. I'll chase him Keith (talk) 14:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Darth Sidious says "do it". SinexTitan (talk) 19:36, 14 January 2026 (UTC)