Keith

Alexa (talk) 16 May 2025

Hello @Keith,

I'm interested in helping with the wiki, and specifically I have real world example, but would like to check if it's a good fit here or not.

And I can't talk in discord, as it's forcing me to submit my email.

Is this a good place to start conversation on adding new company, and fitness of the case.

Thank you.

∼∼∼∼

Hi @Alexa!

No problem at all - go ahead and let me know what your thought is and I'll give you my thoughts on whether/how it fits on the wiki!

Keith (talk) 20:03, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Alexa (talk) 06:36, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

@Keith,

There is company in California that offers indoor skydiving, and obviously they have waiver to sign (with arbitration 😃), but it's not the issue I found there, but that part of that waiver is "consent" to "grant exclusive permission" to take photo/video, and use it in their promotional materials, and there is no way to sign the waiver without consenting to that photo/video permission, online form doesn't allow you to proceed. And even when we went to the place itself, staff said that "corporate doesn't allow them to print out forms to fill out, anymore, and all waivers need to be filled in online", means we can't opt out from that photo/video consent. So my kid ended up not taking that "flight", because we couldn't sign the waiver without consenting to photos.

Thank you.

Alexa (talk) 17 May 2025

@Alexa

I think that fits the bill - although it's a smaller company, it fits within the frame of modern consumer protection and demonstrates how draconian the terms for even something like that can be. Go for it! I'd probably say that this is a case where a company article can be created, and the TOS issue can be neatly summarised within it, as opposed to being a seperate incident article.

Edit: actually, I might have got ahead of myself - is this something which has been covered or discussed annywhere other than by yourself? If not, it may fall foul of the No Original Research rule, although a very basic page which basically just lays out the facts which can be established from their website and TOS, and does not provide any commentary beyond this, might be ok.

Keith (talk) 07:55, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Re: CAT Documentation

@Keith I've replied to your message at User talk:Travis. Let me know if you'd like to discuss further approaches to organizing the documentation. Travis (talk) 14:43, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Delegating tasks

Hello Keith,

You said at the meetup that you found it easy to delegate.

This interests me because when I was in business, I found it difficult delegate: did not believe people could not do a good enough job and I would be still responsible for the results.

Is this topic of interest to you?

∼∼∼∼

Janosabel (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

I think that in the context of wikis or any kind of community project, one needs to be able to trust others to get anywhere (perhaps with some verification too at times).

I'm under absolutely no illusion that I can do all or even much of this by myself, and we have some really talented and great people on the team!

There's no way of achieving the results we'd want without spreading the workload and decision-making responsibility. Keith (talk) 09:33, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

I understand what you mean.

Just realised, I was speaking about me half a century ago; and not being able to trust delegees cost me a burnout. Without delegation even if imperfect, what must be done cannot be done.

Unfortunately I cannot help by contributing to the Wiki for lack of academic training in the required writing style, but put on my talk page a witness account how supermarkets expanding to local areas are killing independent small traders.

PS. What is the difference between <edit source> and using the <reply> button? Janosabel (talk) 20:05, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

I think the reply button just opens up a small window of the editor, and applies the signature to the message automatically? I'll have a look at what you mentioned, but I'm not sure it quite fits the theme of the Wiki, as we're keeping it focused on anti-consumer activities, rather than general issues with corporate behaviour.

And yes, I'll be careful on burnout! I want to avoid the combination of this and my day job driving me mad... Keith (talk) 23:02, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks and silly questions

Hi Keith,

thanks for adding me to the confirmed users. Total newbie here, i have no idea how to properly contribute. I tried to start a discussion in the Category Leagislation Africa, not sure if it was posted.

Should i ask it directly here? or keep it in that category?

Mika, Madagascar. Mikadago (talk) 11:42, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm happy to reply there, though it will take a few mins to put together an answer and provide some guidance on where best to include the information Keith (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Is the main Miku article ready to have the stub removed?

Miku

I've been working on getting to Miku article to a better place, is there anything else you think I should add to it before the stub is removed? Left4Code (talk) 01:20, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Happy to remove the incomplete notice as it's defeinitely better sourced now, but I think it might be s good idea for you to have a look at how the controversies/incidents section is laid out on the Netflix article, as the way it's done in the Miku article is a little strange, especially with the 'this article sumarizes' bits at the start of paragraphs

In any case, thank you for the good work! Keith (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Why was my page deleted?

I also see no notices or notifications in regard to this. I thought the whole point of this was for transparency? Slab Man (talk) 21:12, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

From what I can tell you created the article with, other than the information from the form, just a couple of sentences containing an accusation without any citation or reference to support it. After around 12 hours, Mr Pollo added a deletion notice to the article, as there was virtually no information contained in the article. After a couple more days, as the article had not been edited or improved, it was deleted.

I can't speak to the lack of notifications - usually whenever an article you've been involved in is edited, it will show up in your inbox in the top right of the screen. It's possible that the full deletion of the article resulted in it removing the notifications; I'm not exactly sure of how that interaction works Keith (talk) 23:01, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Well I planned to add more details and citations when I had time. It can't be a draft/work in progress? You have to write everything in one go? Slab Man (talk) 04:44, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

The wiki generally expects an article to have at least a few references and all of the template parts at least partially filled in within the first few days of an article's creation. JamesTDG (talk) 05:59, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

I'll second what James said, and also add that it's possible to create draft pages within your user space. You do this by adding 'user:[yourname]/' to the start of the page name. This keeps it out of mainspace, meaning it is not searchable by the main search bar.

Currently this policy you've encountered is unwritten, so I'll add it to the moderator guidelines shortly. Keith (talk) 06:30, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Noted. It would be great if there was a regular draft function like in almost every software. (So this doesn’t happen to other new users after their first contribution.) Honestly, after you deleted it, it felt like my contribution is unwanted. Slab Man (talk) 04:31, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

That's fair enough - we should add some more text to the article creation flow which explains how user space works, how to make a draft article, and what the policy for handling new articles is. If you'd like, I can get the text from the deleted article and put it on your user talk page or something so you can pick it up from where you left off? Keith (talk) 10:37, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you that would be great. Looking forward to helping out! Slab Man (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

Interenet Archive stub notice seems badly placed

Hi @Keith, the stub notice on Internet Archive seems to be after the lead section and not before it. Can you please fix this? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 06:40, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

Done! Keith (talk) 08:23, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

Question about re-use of sources for LiveView Article

Hey Keith,

I noticed that for the LiveView Technologies AI Surveillance article, the same source has been re-used multiple times but shows up with a different citation number. Namely the citations number 6,32, and 33 are duplicates of 4 (LVT Use Cases in Law Enforcement), 14 is a duplicate of 5 (AI-Driven Mobile Security for Every Threat), 35 is a duplicate of 8 (Fusion Centers), and 21 is a duplicate of 20 (Mobile cameras deployed at Monroe County Office Building amid security concerns)

Also the links are missing the archive URLs in the references and some don't have author first and last name or date where they are available on the site or the date is incorrect.

I have a version of the article which shrinks the list of references (citation 33 is now a re-use of citation 4 for that section for example) and also has the relevant archive links and names and dates for each reference where possible.

Should I commit the change? I know that this article may be looked at be people very soon and I'd rather get your approval to change it and have you ready to roll-back or append to it in case you don't like it. Left4Code (talk) 18:47, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

I think I'm going to commit the change now, you're free to revert it or check it over in case I messed something up. In the event this article is mentioned at City hall on Thursday, I want it to be the best it can be.

Thank you for helping with the wiki. Left4Code (talk) 19:03, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! and yeah, if you notice small formating issues (especially with an article louis has been working on :P ) just go ahead and make the change - that's the way of the wiki! Keith (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Small formatting issues or other non-obvious things like referencing problems* Keith (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Proposal to add a section for organized meetings. (might be a better name for this)

Hey Keith, I hope I'm not posting here again too early.

I thought about how every time Louis wants to generate interest for a particular issue with regards to getting viewers to organize, most of the time he has to do a video on it and these calls for organization when fighting for a particular issue (such as LVT tomorrow) are based in the United States.

I don't know if this already exists on the wiki (if it does, i'd like to know where it is), but do you think it would be a good idea to create a page specifically for posting the dates and instructions for showing up to demonstrations or hearings for the purposes of pushing back against anti-consumer or anti-privacy related issues? (This could be world-wide).

If someone from the UK for example wanted to organize a demonstration or have people speak at or attend an open council meeting, they would edit a row of a wiki table and list the time of the demonstration, an additional page describing the instructions or requirements to attend, and the issue that will be talked about (similar to rossmanngroup.com/clippyone).

I feel that with something like this, organizing both members of the public and members of the wiki regardless of country would be much easier and could provide a centralized and updated list of upcoming events based on user submission and moderator approval.

Let me know what you think about something like this when you're free to reply, I'd like to hear your thoughts in addition to anyone else who sees this and wants to talk about it. Left4Code (talk) 17:11, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

It's definitely on the edge of what makes sense here, but I think that it's worth considering as it could well be useful. Might be something that will end up being done through FULU though in the end... maybe some kind of 'events noticeboard' a bit like the moderator notice could work? Keith (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

An "events noticeboard" in the way you describe it with moderation is exactly what I was thinking. You're right about how it should be done through FULU directly instead of the wiki, that's a better idea.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I was just wondering if it was a completely off-the-wall idea. Left4Code (talk) 23:16, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

BT article

Hello Keith, remember this article? I pinged you 16 days ago but it seems that it didn’t work and I’ve forgotten about it since. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 19:27, 16 September 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder! as we were both in agreement, I removed the article. Keith (talk) 06:48, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Privacy notice change

Hello Keith, I was looking through things in the Mediawiki namespace to see how backend works, when I noticed the Mediawiki:Footer-privacy-notice page and it reminded me of this on the main page. Can we change it quickly or does it need to be done backend? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:37, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

We're going to do a policy update and a full review of that stuff when we update the backend tomorrow, so I'll make sure it's handled Keith (talk) 19:01, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

Protect Template:Welcome

Hello, am contacting you directly as I think it is the best way to make this happen, but PLEASE protect Template:Welcome, I doubt we'll get vandalism on there but if we do and it sends a message with it we're done for... AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:06, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Oh, also can you make the bot substitute (make the template not change on that page even after it gets updated) the templates for the sake of preservation of the page? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:08, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @Beanie Bo for getting that first one!

I think I get what you mean re. the substitution, but have no idea how to do it. Will look into it Keith (talk) 16:30, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for bringing it up! I'm not sure about your second question though, so I'll leave that to Keith. Beanie Bo (talk) 18:26, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Second one is complicated, but the first one is the only important one. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:39, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Is it fine for me to get an alternate account?

Edit: Have no clue why I'd need this in practice, so forget about it. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

no worries. In answer to your question, as long as we're notified, and there are no sockpuppetry shenanigans, then the answer is yes. Keith (talk) 15:39, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Do you mind if I use AutoWikiBrowser on the CRW?

Hello, I recently heard about a tool called AutoWikiBrowser which is a semi-automated tool meant to help for repetitive smaller edits which I do a lot, do you mind if I use it and if you don't mind, should I use an alternate account for it (maybe with 'bot flag' even though it's not a bot so it doesn't show??) Edit: Also, the page to get this, BotPasswords, lets you change grants for people/things with the password, so is it okay to let people/things with the password edit protected pages (for things like typo-fixing Project namespace pages)? It is risky if it is obtained.AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Happy for you to use that! sounds like a great tool. No strong opinions on whetehr you make a separate account for it Keith (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

On the passwords front, I'm not sure how exactly that works. Does it give you the ability to use your own account via API? Keith (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Yes, botpasswords is pretty much that. It lets you change permissions too, so I can give it only specific permissions for safety reasons. Also, as for the ‘seperate account thing’ Botpasswords (the one that I can use) gives me a new account anyway so there’s no reason for it, just me misunderstanding the usage. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 14:16, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Cool, that sounds fine then! do you need me to do anything to get it set up? Keith (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

No, I’ll do it myself when I next get a chance on my PC (without any special perms as I don’t know why I’d need that!) AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 14:21, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Found Large Amount of 404 links for flock article

Page link: Flock license plate readers

Hey Keith,

I was checking the sources in the above article and noticed that for a large section of it, the sources will lead directly to pages which either don't exist or result in 404. I really hope that this is just a problem on my end and isn't really the case. Below is the complete list of all sources I found that lead to 404'd pages. On the actual article page, I have also marked the following with the status of usurped for the time being.

Ref #	Title	Issue	Archive state	Link
20	"How Vehicle Fingerprint Technology Works"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/resources/how-vehicle-fingerprint-technology-works
21	"License Plate Surveillance Company Can Now Capture Images of Vehicle Occupants' Faces"	404	no archive	https://www.404media.co/flock-safety-can-now-capture-faces-of-vehicle-occupants/
22	"Transforming Flock: Beyond License Plate Reading to Deliver Greater Insights for Solving Crime"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/newsroom/transforming-flock-beyond-license-plate-reading-to-deliver-greater-insights-for-solving-crime/
24	"Atlas of Surveillance: Flock Safety"	goes to deeplinks blog, but no article	no archive	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/04/atlas-surveillance-flock-safety
25	"Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle v. Baltimore Police Department"	404	no archive	https://www.eff.org/cases/leaders-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department
26	"Carpenter and the Evolving Fourth Amendment"	404	no archive	https://www.law.georgetown.edu/american-criminal-law-review/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/01/60-1-Carpenter-and-the-Evolving-Fourth-Amendment.pdf
27	"Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle v. Baltimore Police Department"	404	no archive	https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67689711/leaders-of-a-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department/
28	"Illinois Compiled Statutes - Freedom from Drone Surveillance Act"	404	no archive	https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=3541&ChapterID=53
29	"RSA 236:130 Automated License Plate Recognition"	potential 404	no archive	http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/236/236-130.htm
32	"Surveillance firm provided ICE access to license plate reader systems"	404	no archive	https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jul/15/flock-safety-ice-license-plate-reader
33	"How Flock Safety is Building a Surveillance Network for ICE"	404	no archive	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/flock-safety-and-ice
34	"ICE Surveillance of Immigrants and Advocates"	404	no archive	https://americanoversight.org/investigation/ice-surveillance-of-immigrants-and-advocates/
35	"ACLU Obtains Records Showing ICE Using License Plate Readers in Sanctuary Cities"	404	no archive	https://www.aclunc.org/news/aclu-obtains-records-showing-ice-using-license-plate-readers-sanctuary-cities
36	"License Plate Readers Are Creating a US-Wide Database of More Than Just Cars"	404	no archive	https://www.vice.com/en/article/license-plate-readers-abortion-clinics-texas
37	"Reproductive Surveillance in Post-Roe America"	404	no archive	https://www.surveillancewatch.io/reproductive-surveillance-post-roe/
38	"State Shield Laws and Reproductive Privacy"	dead site	no archive	https://reproductiverights.gov/shield-laws/
39	"Flock Safety Employees Caught Misusing Access to Surveillance Network"	404	no archive	https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-employees-misuse-access/
40	"Audit Reveals Hundreds of Flock Safety Privacy Violations"	404	no archive	https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/15/audit-reveals-hundreds-of-flock-safety-privacy-violations/
41	"When License Plate Readers Become Tools for Stalking"	404	no archive	https://apnews.com/article/license-plate-readers-police-misuse-stalking
42	"Detroit Officer Fired for Using City Cameras to Track Ex-Wife"	404	no archive	https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2024/03/officer-fired-tracking-ex-wife/
43	"Proactive Security Disclosure Q2 2025"	404	no archive	https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/proactive-security-disclosure-q2-2025

If you discover no issues (or the formatting of this table turns out horrible and breaks your talk page), disregard this and remove my topic from your page. And revert the change I made to the article where I marked the mentioned links as usurped.

Hopefully if these sites really lead to nothing and it's not just me, then the table makes it easy for you to do something. Left4Code (talk) 02:52, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Had a bit of a dig and my suspicion, expecially since these references are all next to each other, is that there was probably some AI chicanery in the making of the article.

Seem to be poitentially based on real pages, e.g. this one:

https://www.eff.org/document/fourth-circuit-ruling-leaders-beautiful-struggle-v-baltimore-police-department

is probably meant to be #25 instead of what is currently there

I'd recommend sticking this table on the Flock talk page (if you haven't already) and letting people know they might need to look for what these links are meant to be Keith (talk) 14:19, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the table to the discussion tab. Should there be a notice at the top of the Flock page to make people aware? Or leave it as is? Beanie Bo (talk) 17:42, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Nevermind about the notice. The references were small enough to not need them for the most part. I started working on fixing some of them Beanie Bo (talk) 18:30, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

Oversighted something

Hello, Keith! I just wanted to let you know I just gave myself the 'suppressor' user right as I oversighted what I think could be your IP address for privacy reasons. The info is at Special:Diff/805. If it isn't your IP address, feel free to revert what I just did. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 11:32, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

I think it might have been (though very good chance it was some temp VPN/mobile IP address). In any case, thank you for spotting it! Keith (talk) 12:09, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

being able to edit Discussions

hey so I just discovered I can edit discussions. not only mine but any1 elses. is this an oversight? SinexTitan (talk) 20:23, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

Not sure - might just be how wikis are (given that edit logs are public, it's pretty easy to combat anyone trying to abuse it, same as with article vandalism)

I'll page in @UntoK in case it's something that isn't how it should be Keith (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

Nah, that's MediaWiki. Nothing unusual there. Edit Source is actually the default way to edit discussions in MediaWiki, but the interface is changed by an extension (forgot the name), so that it shows as this instead of just the edit source button. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:37, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

dk y I didn't notice that b4. I've been on and off w contribs so thought smth changed since my last visit. anyhow thanks for clearing up the concern. SinexTitan (talk) 19:00, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

"fixing" recent changes

since the introduction of Template:Welcome, Special:RecentChanges has become a graveyard of User:Talks that I have to sift through in order to double check people's work. can we please block User:New_user_message from showing up on there?

edit: the bot bypasses the "Human (not bot) active filter SinexTitan (talk) 22:12, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

yeah, that's a localsettings.php part that Keith can pass on to Unto. setting $wgNewUserSuppressRC to true should work. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

as a temp fix, this should work AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 10:54, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

legend. thank you SinexTitan (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi @AnotherConsumerRightsPerson - took a bit of a break over the holidays so sorry for not replying. I'll contact Unto and see if he can take a look Keith (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough! AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

any update? SinexTitan (talk) 17:55, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

I've put Unto on it but no update. I'll chase him Keith (talk) 14:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Darth Sidious says "do it". SinexTitan (talk) 19:36, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

any update? SinexTitan (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I think it's been fixed? I don't see New User Message clogging up the feed anymore Keith (talk) 00:54, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

I certainly remember that we tried to fix it, and I think it seemed to work Keith (talk) 00:54, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

oh... I was using ACRP's temp fix so I did not realize and thought it was still broken lol SinexTitan (talk) 16:06, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

*sigh*

Where are the projects (again)? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:04, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

deja vu? SinexTitan (talk) 18:42, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

oh SinexTitan (talk) 18:48, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

LOL, made me chuckle seeing your replies! AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

hey as a wise man once said "if you are good at something, never do it for free". that'll be $5 my friend SinexTitan (talk) 19:05, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

yeah, replied on the noticeboard, but just adding here - I think an update must have broken it. have contacted Unto Keith (talk) 01:07, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

@AnotherConsumerRightsPerson @SinexTitan Fixed! Keith (talk) 14:52, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

sorry for the ping

I used the intro text from Texas Attorney General sues multiple TV makers over ACR user data collection to add to the Incidents section for each of the mentioned companies. In the edit summary I linked you. Ik that @ and SinexTitan (talk) 22:33, 21 January 2026 (UTC) ping the user but idk abt linking. regardless sorry abt the pings

th happened here? SinexTitan (talk) 22:34, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

No worries! I don't think @s in edit summaries cause pings anyway Keith (talk) 22:37, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

alternative to Discord

I don't use Discord. many members of the wiki don't use Discord. can't talk on their behalf but I can mine. if there was a Matrix or heck Signal gc (lol), I'd love to be a part of it. are there any plans for migration off Discord or perhaps providing w an alternative they'd be more comfortable with? SinexTitan (talk) 19:32, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

We're hoping to get a Zulip bridge with the Discord in the next couple of months. This would allow people to essentially join the Discord without joining the Discord, with the exception of a couple of features like bot commands and voice channels. Keith (talk) 08:19, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

lovely looking forward to it SinexTitan (talk) 09:44, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

is the Zulip bridge still under consideration following the impending age verification push in March? SinexTitan (talk) 23:07, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I've not heard of Zulip but it sounds like some sort of proxy? I'd prefer something like Matrix but that seems great too. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 17:44, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

Zulip is a bit like a matrix/discord-y thing, and we'd use plugins to essentially crosspost everything that's sent to it to the discord and vice versa. It's still coming along but I've been crap and haven't got the server paid up yet. will try and do this next week and we can hopefully get it up shortly. Keith (talk) 00:45, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Just in case yous hadn't noticed it on the main page @AnotherConsumerRightsPerson @SinexTitan, we're moving our monthly hangout meetings from discord to zoom so as to include more of the community, and you're both welcome to join! first one is at 20:00 UTC tomorrow. if you pop me an email over to [email protected], I'll send you the zoom link (son't want to posted publicly for obvious reasons) Keith (talk) 00:50, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

I've seen that, I'm not interested in joining though. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 06:21, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

oh I totally missed that. I'll shoot over an email and add it to my calendar but dk if I'll be able to join. SinexTitan (talk) 16:09, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Apologies for not seeing this sooner - I'll send over a link just now! Keith (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Hi, any update on the Zulip bridge? Sorry for asking after such a short time but I'd really like to use it! AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 17:24, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

@Keith any update still? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 12:44, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Jake's on it - we've been going back and forth over whether to have a managed instance or self hosted - sry for the kerfuffle! Keith (talk) 14:34, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Can you help moving my page

Sorry I said this 3 times or more, I got confused, can you move please, I moved it in wrong place, may I ask should I ask here instead of the pages I placed ^&* (talk) 21:23, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

Thank you but should I create it in the user page just to clarify ^&* (talk) 21:34, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

Don't want to be nuisance that all when doing my article ^&* (talk) 21:35, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

I've replied on your user page - think it should be alright now? Keith (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

your user talk page* Keith (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

Adding categories

Hello, please don't add categories in the visual editor as it doesn't work, instead simply type [[Category:CATEGORYNAME]] and replace CATEGORYNAME with the name of the category, otherwise it won't work. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 16:57, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Apologies, thank you! I usually use source but I think there I just hit 'edit' by accident as was trying to set it up quickly. just so you know, I've replied to stefan's questions on the page he moved - thank you for moving the page he created! Keith (talk) 17:31, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Regarding a recent article I created

Hello, Keith! I have finally decided to become a contributor here. The article I've been working on is Happy Bar & Grill Biometric Surveillance. However, when someone I've sent the link to opens it, they see the version that was last updated before I created my profile. What could be causing this? I apologise for any lack of knowledge on my part. Juuns (talk) 18:23, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Unfortunately this is a problem with cloudflare's caching. If you wait a short while, or they log in, they should see the updated version. We've found a solution and will be shipping it with the next version of the wiki so that page edits are instantly reflected in cached versions of pages. Until then, it's just a case of waiting a while or logging in (logging in bypasses the cache as it needs to load user-specific elements). Great work on the article by the way! Just as a heads up, we're happy to have sources in non-english languages, so if you find any Bulgarian sources discussing it, those would be great to add to the article to demonstrate notability. Keith (talk) 18:42, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Oops, apparently I was spreading misinformation on the internet regarding the exact reasons for it not being cached, but the gist is still the same, which is that logged-in users bypass the cache! Keith (talk) 18:48, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the swift reply and the explanation! It's so refreshing to see people working hard and helping others for a good cause. Also very happy to hear that you like how the article has turned out so far. I've extensively searched for any other sources regarding the issue, but found nothing. I guess someone has to start the discussion! :D

Just to confirm: is the wiki English-only? I'd love to make the article more accessible to my compatriots, but I suppose I'll just tell them to use the automatic translation option on their browser. Juuns (talk) 21:05, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

The wiki is english only yeah, for moderation purposes (we don't have a team that's reliably able to check the quality of non-english articles). if you wanted, though, we'd be happy for you to put a bulgarian version in your user space (i.e. the page lives at consumerrights.wiki/w/User:Juuns/[pagename]) - just make sure to put a note in english at the top so that none of the mods mistake it for a spam article! Keith (talk) 22:48, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Hey there, thanks for the advice! Is that alright? https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Iw/User:Juuns/%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B2_Happy_Bar_%26_Grill_-_bg_translation_of_an_existing_article/&veaction=edit Juuns (talk) 08:35, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Yep! The URL looks cursed written out like that lol but it's in the right place Keith (talk) 16:24, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Hello again, Keith!

I and the small team I've created have made huge progress regarding the surveillance situation at Happy Bar and Dinner. We posted the wiki on the r/bulgaria subreddit, and it topped the daily chart in less than three hours. People are outraged.

I've managed to contact an advocate from the opposition here who agreed to share the wiki on her Facebook page (over 10,000 followers). She also agreed to work with me to make the topic go viral and will send this to other human rights and anti-mafia activists in Bulgaria. We've planned to create several videos in various forms regarding the issue.

I am writing with a big request that would be extremely beneficial to my cause and the wiki: Could you contact Louis Rossmann and share the wiki with him? Alternatively, you could connect him to me so I can tell him more about it.

I understand this is a big request, but I would be very thankful for your help :) Juuns (talk) 18:43, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

That's great! I've passed the info on, and will let you know the response

This is exactly how I've been hoping to see the wiki be used, so I'm really excited that it's getting picked up! Keith (talk) 16:20, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Hello again, Keith. Things are spreading like wildfire and are getting very heated. An official position from Happy Bar & Grill has been released. They are aggressively denying the claims, but their statement actually contains several contradictions that validate my research rather than disprove it.

In their official position, Happy Bar & Grill claims to have already notified the wiki's administrators (you and Rossmann, I suppose), issuing what they describe as a "categorical demand" for the removal of all alleged misinformation within a 24-hour ultimatum. Could you confirm if such a notice was received? A corporation issuing a 24-hour take-down ultimatum to an independent documentation project before any independent audit or regulatory investigation has taken place is simply outrageous.

Some of the main points I wanted to cover:

First, there is a major timeline discrepancy. Happy claims they received an offer from GI Mobility Services (linked to IP Biometrix? I cannot find any information about them, and other people have come up with nothing as well) in 2023 and officially rejected it on 14 December 2023. However, my archived evidence from IP Biometrix's portfolio shows a screenshot dated 9 November 2024—almost a year after they claim to have rejected the proposal. If they truly rejected the system in 2023, why does the vendor's portfolio display active implementation data from late 2024? Why was the article on their page until 2026? Also, there was an image displaying logos of partner companies still on IP Biometrix's page until 11 March 2026. They took that down just a few hours! This suggests either the system was further tested despite the rejection, or their timeline is fabricated to cover ongoing processing. My main hypothesis right now is that GI Mobility Services is the old version of IP Biometrix. IP Biometrix is a very new company, established at the end of 2023, just around the time of the implied rejected proposal.

Second, their statement completely omits any mention of "Burrata Italiana," despite it being owned by the same group. Is this supposed to be implied? My evidence specifically identifies the biometric dashboard screenshots as originating from the Burrata Italiana location in Varna.

Third, the article on Boulevard Bulgaria (one of the most shared articles regarding the topic), in my eyes, appears to be paid or ordered content, mirroring Happy's language almost verbatim without independent verification. It is even on their top page (archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20260312235007/https://boulevardbulgaria.bg/). Meanwhile, they are attempting to discredit consumerrights.wiki by calling it an unverified anonymous wiki. THIS ATTACKS THE INTEGRITY OF THE WHOLE PLATFORM! I must stand firm that I am NOT spreading misinformation; I am documenting archived vendor evidence and public records. For the past couple of hours, I have made as many archives as possible for any news articles, blogs, and information regarding this.

They are trying to suppress the discussion before it has begun, but I believe it's too late. Many people have already shared this on social media and are also quite sceptical of Happy's response. A deeper dive into IP Biometrix as a whole is needed to check whether other companies also use such a system. They are very shady; they have many other "partners." They are the main issue. I will try to update the page with their denial as soon as possible, but contextualise it with these contradictions so readers see the full picture.

For your reference, here are some of the key articles circulating regarding this situation:

Post in r/bulgaria: Where it all started. After this thread was made, this issue gained massive traction in no time, featuring thousands of views and hundreds of comments from concerned citizens, topping the weekly chart in less than 24 hours: https://www.reddit.com/r/bulgaria/comments/1rqxn90/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D1%85%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B8/

Boulevard Bulgaria: This article mirrors the official corporate release almost verbatim and lacks independent verification. It appears to be coordinated PR rather than journalism: https://boulevardbulgaria.bg/articles/happy-tvardeniyata-che-verigata-sledi-klientite-si-s-ai-kameri-sa-absolyutno-neverni

Mobile Bulgaria: General news coverage discussing the allegations and the company's response. https://mobilebulgaria.com/news/izpolzva-li-happy-bar-grill-litsevo-razpoznavane-s-ai-v-restorantite-si

Kaldata: Technical analysis and reporting on the AI camera systems in restaurants and the company's response. https://www.kaldata.com/it-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8/ai-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8-%D0%B2-%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0-%D0%B7%D0%B0-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7-650764.html

Other useful information:

IP Biometrix: Their current website shows no information or response regarding the events. https://ip-biometrix.com/

Confirmation that this is indeed "Burrata Italiana Varna" in Varna, Bulgaria: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Burrata+Italiana+Varna/@43.1962014,27.9154998,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x40a453f66ec877b1:0x1331c25a3c536926!8m2!3d43.1962014!4d27.9180747!16s%2Fg%2F11js3ffhz7?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDMxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D; File:IP Biometrix AI surveillance dashboard.png

There are other outlets covering this as well, but these are the primary sources needed. I am disgusted by Happy's answer and Boulevard Bulgaria's PR-like article. Please inform Louis to check the email I've sent about this issue; I've formulated all the needed information there. I am furious. Juuns (talk) 01:15, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Crucial note: While the filename indicates November 2024, this date relies on the vendor's naming convention and cannot be forensically verified. Additionally, there is another screenshot in the article from that same date (Screenshot-2024-11-09-121619.png), which may indicate that the screenshots were made when the article was posted rather than during live operation." Juuns (talk) 02:27, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I cannot dedicate unlimited time to maintaining and updating this page alone given the rapid developments. I would greatly appreciate any help regarding that. :) Juuns (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

yep, we've recieved it alright. I'm reworking the article a bit at the moment, to ensure that it's a bit more neutral, fits our editorial policies etc., and does not make any original claims beyond those contained in sources. My current understanding is that there is no evidence that the system has been deployed at scale, as such I'm moving/renaming the article and rewording some of the content.

I'd appreciate if you could keep your bg translation up-to-date with the changes made to the english article (or find someone who is able to do so) to make sure that it's in-line as well. Keith (talk) 07:08, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

I've edited and added as much context as I could to both articles for now. I'm going to take a little break for the rest of the day. Thanks a lot for your support and dedication to this issue and the wiki as a whole. Talk to you soon! Juuns (talk) 09:56, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Lastly for now, could you move the translation to change the title? Разработка на биометричен инструмент за наблюдение на Happy Bar & Grill/Burrata. I suggest specifying Burrata in the English version as well, as we have implication from the company's response that the screenshot of the monitoring is real and not fabricated (pleas read their official response thoroughly before doing anything). Juuns (talk) 10:03, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

update on the above - i fucked up my original edit I was referring to in the above comment, and for some reason it didn't get committed to the article. I've re-made it now. it basically walks back some of the claims where the article was making strong inferences and interpretations of what the sources were saying, to ensure that we're not speculating (given the nature of the site as a wiki, we should not generally be doing original interpretation of sources in articles, especially where they relate to practices carried out by a company)

I read a translation of the statement (seems like the full version is posted to MobileBulgaria) and have been basing my understanding on that. feel free to come back to me if I've misinterpreted it to a significant extent Keith (talk) 07:47, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

Stub Pains

Hey Keith,

I'm way out of my depth here with these stub notices, I added a stub to two new articles I made not realizing they would literally prevent my ability to add any text to the article.

links: AirPods connection vulnerability | AirPods Max moisture issue

When I attempt to make a change to the article, I was getting a stub deletion error. If I did something wrong, would you be able to explain what exactly happened with this so it doesn't happen again? Left4Code (talk) 06:55, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

_{(IN CASE YOU COULDN'T NOTICE, I'M NOT KEITH!)} This is a common issue that users have had for a very long time now. If you edit anywhere before or on the line of the stub notice, something called the abuse filter says "nope, lol, nice try" and blocks the edit. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 07:18, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Should work now. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 07:20, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Ah, I think I did the same thing as ACRP, but the stub notices are now on their own line and not touching anything else, so there shouldn't be any further issues Keith (talk) 14:30, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Publicising RfCs

Hello, the RfCs you made haven't gotten any attention. Should we publicise them better? AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll set up some kind of hub that includes pages with the RfC category or something. Keith (talk) 16:23, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

ok, I made a category for open and closed RfCs, transcluded them on a page, and linked to it from the policy index. idk if there's anywhere else it should be? I guess it's probably worth mentioning on some of the guide-y pages Keith (talk) 16:44, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Arbys article weird ref issue

Arby's

hey keith, when I look at the arby's article, it says in the references, ref goes here, but then when I try to edit it out, it goes away. is there any way to fix this? If you figure out a way, I'd love to know. Left4Code (talk) 16:09, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

That ref is caused by Template:Ph-C-Int. Remove that and the ref will disappear as well. You can't delete the ref without deleting the box. AnotherConsumerRightsPerson (talk) 09:39, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the help, I've replaced the box with a simple message to do the summary. Left4Code (talk) 02:46, 14 March 2026 (UTC)